U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-15-2009, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,057 posts, read 29,718,655 times
Reputation: 10450

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by tablemtn View Post
Is that fair, though?

Let's imagine that someone invents a series of drugs that can increase brainpower. These drugs can be dangerous, if not used properly.

Would we "ban" engineers or scientists who turn out to be using these performance enhancers instead of merely using their own inborn "natural" intelligence?
From these comments, I get the impression that you're not much of a sports fan. Is it fair to demand that an athlete rely on his or her natural abilities? I should say so--in fact, I thought that was the basis for sports!

Of course, here in 21st century America, the name of the game isn't sports for the sake of athleticism. It's sports for big money. Therefore, you must win (since Americans do not tolerate losing teams). Therefore, you must do whatever it takes to win. And if that means destroying yourself through drugs--does anyone remember what Lyle Alzado looked like shortly before he died?--then that's what you have to do, sports and competition be damned.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-15-2009, 05:45 PM
 
485 posts, read 903,396 times
Reputation: 100
Default yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
From these comments, I get the impression that you're not much of a sports fan. Is it fair to demand that an athlete rely on his or her natural abilities? I should say so--in fact, I thought that was the basis for sports!

Of course, here in 21st century America, the name of the game isn't sports for the sake of athleticism. It's sports for big money. Therefore, you must win (since Americans do not tolerate losing teams). Therefore, you must do whatever it takes to win. And if that means destroying yourself through drugs--does anyone remember what Lyle Alzado looked like shortly before he died?--then that's what you have to do, sports and competition be damned.
I do! I actually saw him in vegas about six months before he died!I walked past him in the tropicana casino and he looked like death! At the time i never knew he was ill or anything!Then i heard it on tv he passed away.....I wasnt shocked after thinking about how he looked? A friend had to point him out because i didnt know it was him he was so frail looking!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2009, 12:57 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
13,340 posts, read 10,905,899 times
Reputation: 12290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
From these comments, I get the impression that you're not much of a sports fan. Is it fair to demand that an athlete rely on his or her natural abilities? I should say so--in fact, I thought that was the basis for sports!

Of course, here in 21st century America, the name of the game isn't sports for the sake of athleticism. It's sports for big money. Therefore, you must win (since Americans do not tolerate losing teams). Therefore, you must do whatever it takes to win. And if that means destroying yourself through drugs--does anyone remember what Lyle Alzado looked like shortly before he died?--then that's what you have to do, sports and competition be damned.
How right you are! Now we see this type of pressure at college and even high school and below level play. It is flat WRONG. Love of the game and heart for the play has been replaced by a 'win at all costs' attitude. The results of the latter are plain. I regularly see parents and coaches berating kids for 'poor performance' etc and it sickens me. The damage being done by this type of attitude toward athletics is staggering. It also has bred a new class of 'role models' at the pro level that are anything but. Sad and tragic. This is what we are telling our kids they need to aspire to? . I feel that professional athletics needs an overhaul. I have seen many very good coaches as well at the lower levels of play, unfortunatly they teach good attitudes, but don't seem to have the most winning records, so they gat canned. How dare they play that so and so kid instead of that so and so allstar super stud in the championship game. So what if Mr. superstar failed two classes and got busted for drugs, IT's THE CHAMPIONSHIP. Very very sad.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2009, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,556,197 times
Reputation: 35864
Hey, that is a good solution. Teach every player to have some loftier goal than winning. Then, they will be so easy to beat, you won't even need to take steroids in order to win. Your opponent won't even want to win. They will have some other goal, like keeping their uniform clean or something.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2009, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Maryland about 20 miles NW of DC
6,111 posts, read 4,864,800 times
Reputation: 2419
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Is there any way sports can extricate itself from this drug problem, or is sports as we know it going to cease to exist because of drugs?


I don't think that using technology or in this case medical technology called drugs to get a performance edge is inconsistent with America's true values. In fact it is more in tune with our true values which view those who play by the rules as chumps. Americans teach our young not to let a few rules stand in the way of what we want.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2009, 04:36 PM
 
485 posts, read 903,396 times
Reputation: 100
The way the games are played today i think we would be better off to play sports arcade style.lol..It would be cheaper and people wouldnt be putting crap in there bodys to kill themselves for the $$$
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2009, 06:09 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
13,340 posts, read 10,905,899 times
Reputation: 12290
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Hey, that is a good solution. Teach every player to have some loftier goal than winning. Then, they will be so easy to beat, you won't even need to take steroids in order to win. Your opponent won't even want to win. They will have some other goal, like keeping their uniform clean or something.
I'm not sure exactly what your point is, but, a loftier goal than winning seems OK to me. How many are actually going to be cut out for professional level sports, in reality? Those who excel in athletics will still have the opportunity to play irregardless of who they played for in high school, without their academics having to suffer, if the 'win at all costs, sports are EVERYTHING, attitude was toned down. At the pro level, and higher college level of play, I can see things being more serious on the playing field, thats why college athletes are there, for the mot part. Athletics have become a major for many. My problem is with high school and below level players being farmed for an athletic future, and their real schooling getting set aside so they can make a coach look good. Teams can still be competitive without such blatant BS. When these lower levels of play are starting to use performance enhancing drugs to get an edge, something needs to happen. Perhaps real athletes will take back over one day instead of steroid stallions, I sure hope so
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2009, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,668 posts, read 71,556,197 times
Reputation: 35864
Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
At the pro level, and higher college level of play, I can see things being more serious on the playing field,

At what age is a player with professional aspirations supposed to start thinking about winning? Winning is a mindset, and you can't win without it, and you can't suddenly switch on that mindset at age 18. I know at least one junior-college baseball program that uses wooden bats. The coach says if you don't think you will ever be good enough to play professionally, what are you doing on my team? I see nothing wrong with that approach.

Every game has scoring rules, and you don't even want to keep score.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2009, 08:40 PM
 
485 posts, read 903,396 times
Reputation: 100
Do it the way Babe ruth did...a cigar and a hangover and a few ladies! He done just fine in my books...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-17-2009, 09:06 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
13,340 posts, read 10,905,899 times
Reputation: 12290
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
At what age is a player with professional aspirations supposed to start thinking about winning? Winning is a mindset, and you can't win without it, and you can't suddenly switch on that mindset at age 18. I know at least one junior-college baseball program that uses wooden bats. The coach says if you don't think you will ever be good enough to play professionally, what are you doing on my team? I see nothing wrong with that approach.

Every game has scoring rules, and you don't even want to keep score.
Do you just like to mess with me bub? Read my whole post and try to pay attention please. I said that being competitive does not require players use performance enhancing drugs and put EVERYTHING else in life aside to play. At high school level play, and even lower now, the 'winning' mindset encompasses nothing but the sport being played. The pressure on these kids to win win win is out of control. Athletics are great, don't get me wrong, but I see far to much emphasis being placed on them at to young an age. Teaching them to work as a team, and win on the field is great, but to push them so hard they feel they need dope to keep up is out of line, but hey, the pros do it right? And, life is all about winning the game. I compete in a sport myself, I almost went pro back in 98. But I never compromised my principals to win the match, if I lost I practiced more for next go. Some coaches these days feel the need to punish their players for losing. They tear them down but they have no clue as to how to build them back up. From the sounds of it, I'm glad my kid doesn't play on one of your ball teams. I'm afraid we would end up having a serious disagreement. The hell of it is that kids are looking at whats happening in pro play in the name of winning these days, and trying to emulate it. Not such a good thing. Winning is a not always reflection of whats on the score board. There is way more to it than that. But, thats just my take on it. Where are you getting that I want all sports to be like T ball? Methinks you are looking for a reason to go on the prod. Lighten up man.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Great Debates
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top