Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Isn't it a natural response to get angry while your job prospects seem diminished? Are they angry because they went to college and now can't find work, or are they angry that they can't find work that would be relevant to their degree? I sense some ambiguity in your question, are you assuming that these folk's chose wrongly regarding their education? Can we really afford to become comfortable with the notion that education should always be rewarded monetarily? Yes, they are better off than the high school grad, for the simple reason that they were fortunate enough to be exposed to a different way of thinking.
the mind set is if i get a BA, if i get an MBA, the monster debt wont matter the heavens will open and i am home free. attitude work ethic experience maturity appearance all will be irrelevant once i get those credentials. they will never look at my TRW ever.
think certificate think license think jr college think debt free VE, my favorite RN.
They can since its an employers market. They use any means to weed out candidates, since (as you well know) every open position is answered with hundreds (if not thousands) of applications. Not working in the summer is not indicative of anything. On the other hand, I know students who worked every summer and were rejected because their "experience" wasn't precisely what the employer wanted. There are endless reasons for rejection if you have so many applicants.
HR are among the least creative departments in a business. In most cases they look up to the big guys and follow their example.
I just read an article about a town that asked potential candidates for their internet user names and passwords on social networks like facebook... Just another way to tell the candidate isn't a good fit. In a short time probably every ****ty business will demand the same.
I 100% agree with this. I remember that I was rejected from a couple of jobs I applied for because I was an only child. It seems that a psychologist was hired to assist in HR, and they told the company not to hire any individuals who were only children....... like it was my fault my parents chose to only have 1 kid?
I was rejected from another one for not having 20/20 vision....the employer decided not to hire anyone with less than perfect vision when there were other applicants who had perfect vision.... (it's not considered a disability unless you're legally blind, so it is a legal method of discrimination)
Employers are getting creative screening out applicants in ways that don't violate discrimination laws. Be warned, you may be rejected for reasons you'd never have thought about before.
A number of my extended family have recently graduated with Liberal Arts Degrees from College and are now hitting the job market unsuccessfully. Most of them have absolutely no work experience even in a part time job. Or do they have any part time experience as an unpaid Intern. They devoted themselves to their studies.
Now they are angry that they can not find a job. Are they any better off than a person right out of High School? Lets assume they are equal in communication skills and interviewing skills.
My parents actually wouldn't ALLOW my brother and I to have a job in high school. Not that we would have had time (marching band and other activities was about 15 hours a week) or a way of getting there (we didn't have cars and no local public transport/sidewalks), but we were told to treat our schoolwork like a job. And it paid off- I got more money in merit scholarships for one semester than I could have made in 3 years of some part time job. My summers were taken up by study programs on the insistence of my parents. In some ways, perhaps they crippled me. But I'd wouldn't trade the few thousands I'd make having a part time job for the $100,000+ I made by using that time to study. I know other people have been able to accomplish the same while still holding down a part time job, but I doubt I could have handled that as a teenager.
On the topic, I'm a "liberal arts" major... I will actually graduate with 3 of them. I do, however, plan on going to grad school and always have- I planned my majors around my future graduate ambitions. I do agree with others that liberal arts majors can be fairly worthless without direction. However, with direction, there are so many options out there. I by no means believe that I could walk into some kind of consulting gig from my undergrad degree, but I do feel that I am adequately prepared to pass the foreign service exam for a diplomacy career or seek employment in the INS if my plans for a masters degree fall through. A little foresight and direction goes a long way.
You misunderstand. The value of working when one is a teenager has nothing to do with the money. Instead, it is a different kind of learning entirely. For the real and substantial lessons in learning how to work comes from learning the value of money, how to cooperate with other people from other backgrounds, and how to handle things that happen outside the realm of what one finds in a textbook. It also teaches one to push oneself, juggle a crowded schedule, and to earn things on one's own. As a business owner, I made the mistake of hiring two different people straight out of college with no actual work experience. It was remarkable how little they really knew about the fundamentals such as showing up on time, keeping records, or thinking on their own rather than having to follow instructions from others.
I was in the marching band as well, not to mention drum corps. Yet I worked a 15-20 hour work week to pay for my car, car insurance, gas, and date money. Didn't hurt me a bit.
You misunderstand. The value of working when one is a teenager has nothing to do with the money. Instead, it is a different kind of learning entirely. For the real and substantial lessons in learning how to work comes from learning the value of money, how to cooperate with other people from other backgrounds, and how to handle things that happen outside the realm of what one finds in a textbook. It also teaches one to push oneself, juggle a crowded schedule, and to earn things on one's own. As a business owner, I made the mistake of hiring two different people straight out of college with no actual work experience. It was remarkable how little they really knew about the fundamentals such as showing up on time, keeping records, or thinking on their own rather than having to follow instructions from others.
I was in the marching band as well, not to mention drum corps. Yet I worked a 15-20 hour work week to pay for my car, car insurance, gas, and date money. Didn't hurt me a bit.
I did marching band, in addition to being the poetry editor (and then editor in chief) of the school literary magazine, co-founder and activist director of the Hispanic Culture club, president of the Spanish Honors Society, tutoring in English, Spanish, French, social studies/history, and basic math, participated in just about ever honors society my school offered, and managing about 60 hours a semester of community service required by my honors societies (though I generally did way more than that). I made spending money through babysitting gigs. All of that was while carrying a heavy academic schedule (I never took non-foreign language or band electives and only a handful of my last 2 years of classes weren't AP or IB). There's more than one way to accomplish understanding the value of the dollar, how to juggle a busy schedule, and how to work with different kinds of people.
Do I wish I had been allowed to work? Sure. Do I think I would have gotten $35,000 a year in scholarship money if I did? Absolutely not. Not to mention I would have had no way to get to a job since my parents were reluctant to drive me anywhere (and I didn't grow up somewhere where I could have walked or biked to work). At one point, my mom said I could work if I paid her taxi fare to take me to work. That would have been half of my daily paycheck. :P It would have been fiscally irresponsible to buy a car since I would just have to sell it after a year when I went to college in a city with public transportation.
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,309 posts, read 38,784,973 times
Reputation: 7185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weekend Traveler
A number of my extended family have recently graduated with Liberal Arts Degrees from College and are now hitting the job market unsuccessfully. Most of them have absolutely no work experience even in a part time job. Or do they have any part time experience as an unpaid Intern. They devoted themselves to their studies.
Now they are angry that they can not find a job. Are they any better off than a person right out of High School? Lets assume they are equal in communication skills and interviewing skills.
Maybe not. You wouldn't have to pay the high-school grad as much.
You misunderstand. The value of working when one is a teenager has nothing to do with the money. Instead, it is a different kind of learning entirely. For the real and substantial lessons in learning how to work comes from learning the value of money, how to cooperate with other people from other backgrounds, and how to handle things that happen outside the realm of what one finds in a textbook. It also teaches one to push oneself, juggle a crowded schedule, and to earn things on one's own. As a business owner, I made the mistake of hiring two different people straight out of college with no actual work experience. It was remarkable how little they really knew about the fundamentals such as showing up on time, keeping records, or thinking on their own rather than having to follow instructions from others.
I don't think the two people in your story reflect anything more than the two people in your story. The college experience can include all of things you note and be much more than flipping patties or being a clerk during the summer, as charolastra00 clearly shows. The positions I've held post college are much more like school than any employment I had prior to uni (as a non-trad student). To the dedicated student, school and all its activies can be a 24/7 gig. Obviously, as your experiences show, that's not the case for everybody.
I know there are many wonderful students who make it through college without ever having held a paid job (and who would make excellent employees) - I know many of them. But like cpg said, I, too, have been burned by hiring someone fresh out of school with no actual work experience. She had internships, lots of activities, excellent scholarship, etc. She was certainly good at thinking on her own, but sometimes a little too good at being independent - I highly value independence and drive and want that in an employee and colleague, but her internship and volunteer experience had been designed with her needs in mind, and she had problems setting aside some of her opinions to get the job at hand done. She was lacking some basic knowledge of protocol, like don't go straight to my supervisor with something, especially if you've already asked me about it and I've said no. That sort of thing. I acknowledge 100% that people have to start somewhere, and that a first-time worker could be an excellent employee (or someone who has held a job could be a terrible employee), but when you get a lot of applications and you need to figure out where to draw the line then it's easy to decide that, all other considerations being equal, it's safer to go with someone who has cut their teeth on someone else's dime. Fair? No, probably not. But it's something to keep in mind, as I'm sure there are a lot of other people who do the hiring (HR department or no - my experience has always been in small places without any HR staff) who feel the same way. Even a 10 hr/week campus job would be fine.
At the graduate level I think it's different; I think it's acceptable, and even preferable, for a graduate student not to work, or at least not to work in an unrelated job. I think it's okay for high school students not to work, too, although I think it's often a useful experience. But for the traditional college student then yes, I think students should work at least a token number of hours, although ideally not too many.
You misunderstand. The value of working when one is a teenager has nothing to do with the money. Instead, it is a different kind of learning entirely. For the real and substantial lessons in learning how to work comes from learning the value of money, how to cooperate with other people from other backgrounds, and how to handle things that happen outside the realm of what one finds in a textbook. It also teaches one to push oneself, juggle a crowded schedule, and to earn things on one's own. As a business owner, I made the mistake of hiring two different people straight out of college with no actual work experience. It was remarkable how little they really knew about the fundamentals such as showing up on time, keeping records, or thinking on their own rather than having to follow instructions from others.
I was in the marching band as well, not to mention drum corps. Yet I worked a 15-20 hour work week to pay for my car, car insurance, gas, and date money. Didn't hurt me a bit.
I have to agree with this. I was absurdly busy with high school activities (I won't list them all here), but I also worked 15-20 hours a week starting my freshman year. I really don't know how on earth I did it, I remember studying in between tennis matches on the side of the court, and then immediately running to band practice after my matches were over (band practice did not end until 9pm). Honestly through, I learned so much through working, and I when I went off to college (with scholarships and AP credits) I immediately knew that I was going to work. I ended up working 20 hours a week my whole time in college. I was also an RA (free room and board), and I got a stipend with the job. All of this saved me a ton of cash. If I had not work myself silly in high school, and don't think I would have had the drive and determination to do in all over again in college. All of that working also helped me land a job right out of school after studying very liberal arts fields (polsci/foreign language). I know everyone has different experiences, but I really benefited from working, and I am glad that I did.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
