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Old 08-30-2009, 04:08 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,769 posts, read 40,171,028 times
Reputation: 18106

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
What, a $1,000 exemption in a 15% marginal bracket? A hundred and fifty bucks? $12 a month. No wonder our government is going broke. Put an end to this senseless waste of my hard-earned tax money stolen from my paycheck

Maybe you've hit on a great idea. Since moms don't know how to mom, we should take away all babies at birth, leave mothers free to commute across town to productive telemarketing cubicles, and put the babies in grow-up factories, where they will all learn to do meaningless brain-dead labor for almost no pay and not complain about it. Then you will have your paradise.
I've read enough of your posts to know that in your utopia, the majority of people would never have to work and they would just get paid to stay at home.

But I find that the happiest people are those that have a job they love to do and are productive people. And those that don't have a productive life tend to be unhappy and try to fill their inner void with useless activities like spending their days at shopping malls and using their credit cards. Unproductive people without life goals also tend to have problems with drug and alcohol abuse, or they are sex addicts surfing the internet for porn.
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Old 08-30-2009, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,977,099 times
Reputation: 36644
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
I've read enough of your posts to know that in your utopia, the majority of people would never have to work and they would just get paid to stay at home.
That's better than taking all their babies away and brainwashing them to become mindless drones.

There was the story about the Peace Corps volunteer who went to a south Pacific island, and saw a bunch of guys sitting around in the shade by the beach, and every once in a while they'd use some rudimentary device to catch a fish. The volunteer told them he was going to get aid to help them get them modern boats and outboard motors, to improve their fishng. He said they could make a lot of money that way, and have extra fish to sell, and accumulate considerable wealth. "Why would we want to do that?", they asked. Well, so after you became rich enough, you could retire, and do whatever you want to do. "We're dong that now", they replied.

Yes, you have characterized my philosophy correctly. If everyone had enough to live on, and work were voluntary, and those who worked would receive considerably more than enough to live on, the big majority of people would choose to work. What do you gain by forcing everyone to work, when you already have enough people who want to?

You would always have enough people working to produce all that the entire population needs and what the workers desire in addition to their needs

Last edited by jtur88; 08-30-2009 at 05:20 PM..
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Old 08-30-2009, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,658,013 times
Reputation: 11084
Work is a commendable practice, though. Better than those who COULD work, but choose not to--like retirees.
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Old 08-30-2009, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,977,099 times
Reputation: 36644
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Work is a commendable practice, though. Better than those who COULD work, but choose not to--like retirees.
You mean digging holes and filling them back in again is commendable practice? The virtue of work lies in the result, not the deed. It is not virtuous to do the work of cutting down a tree, unless the felled tree or the cleared space is of value.
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Old 08-30-2009, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,658,013 times
Reputation: 11084
Maybe it was blocking your view, or interfering with electrical wires? Of course, I've seen trees FALL on homes--but it wasn't necessary to cut that tree down so it wouldn't have ever fallen on the home, was it?

Ditches do need to be dug, for a variety of reasons. Drainage, putting in plumbing, phone lines, underground electrical cables...these things all have a value.

There's always something that could be being done, instead of spending all your days sitting on your fat, lazy, rear end.
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Old 08-30-2009, 05:35 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,769 posts, read 40,171,028 times
Reputation: 18106
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Work is a commendable practice, though. Better than those who COULD work, but choose not to--like retirees.
Well not working is fine for retirees assuming that they worked hard for all of their younger years and have equity in a house, some money saved, in addition to receiving their social security checks.

Anyway, people seem to be much happier and more appreciative for what they have if they have worked and saved for it, rather than those things just being given to them for free or no effort.
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Old 08-30-2009, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,977,099 times
Reputation: 36644
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
..these things all have a value.

.
But your view is that the trees should be cut and the holes dug whether or not the result has value because the only thing on earth that DOES have true value is doing work. If the ditch digger digs the ditch on the wrong street, it doesn't matter, because he has still done the work, which is the only consideration of value.

Blackjack dealers get paid to deal because it is remunerative to the employer, not because "work" has some cosmically recognized and self-evident value. You are saying that when I am alone, I could sit at the kitchen table all by myself dealing blackjack hands, because that constitutes work, and work is the only thing I could possibly do in my leisure and solitude that has any virtue. It is not important whether there are players with stacks of chips, it is only important that the work be done. If I spend 40 hours a week dealing cards at my kitchen table, God's in his heaven and all's well with your world. So I should shut up and deal.
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Old 08-30-2009, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,658,013 times
Reputation: 11084
Only if it serves some purpose...if it's "play"--as it seems to be in the scenario you described--it's not valid.
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Old 08-30-2009, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
4,903 posts, read 3,361,298 times
Reputation: 2974
We either keep them as productive members of society via public-sector jobs, or....

we are almost certain to have some major, MAJOR social/civil unrest and skyrocketing crime and violence...

A large number of young, unemployed men is almost always a sure-fire recipe for social disaster...
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Old 08-30-2009, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,977,099 times
Reputation: 36644
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycanmaster View Post

A large number of young, unemployed men is almost always a sure-fire recipe for social disaster...
So send working women home, and give men their jobs. Oh, wait, that's sexist. But what you said isn't.
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