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I no longer vote because that would be acknowledging the legitimacy of the system, which I don't. It would also be a means of attempting to impose my will on you via the ballot.
I no longer vote because that would be acknowledging the legitimacy of the system, which I don't.
Did you cut and paste this word for word from one of my old posts somewhere?
Personally, I think I can have a great deal more positive influence on my society by being a single visible example of virtue, than by casting a single vote for a man who promises to legislate virtue.
you guys are barking up the wrong tree. tk is never going to admit to the fact that he likes society and uses it out of preference. he is never going to admit that the products of social contract, like language, science, math, technology, medicine, hygiene, the arts, government, or anything else, are things that he uses *willingly,* every day.
he wants you to ignore the fact that he is here *by choice,* that he uses all of these societal advantages *by choice,* and that if he were really so opposed to society as he claims, he'd go live in the wild like an animal.
but, he doesn't realize that most of us can look past his third grade reasoning, and that we can see that he still chooses to live in society with the rest of us. he still prefers civilization, internet, infrastructure, and everything else that comes along with it to the lonely, animal nature world outside of social contract.
he doesn't see that all of us are in the same boat in that we all could survive outside of society too if we wanted. but we don't want to. that is the key. we all choose to live in society, by the advantages of social contract. the only difference is that we recognize this fact; he pretends that it doesn't exist.
anyone who partakes in the advantages of society exists within social contract. period. to say otherwise is like arguing that you don't follow the laws of physics. it just kind of happens, and there isn't a lot that you can do to make it otherwise, unless you can really go to a place where those laws do not apply.
in tk's case, that would mean living in the wild, away from everyone else, naked, unequipped, with only his opposable thumbs and supposed intelligence to keep him alive. but even then, he'd still be taking with him knowledge gained through thousands of years of humanity's social living. so we'd have to wipe his brain clean too (shouldn't take too long).
I don't know TK but I like the way he thinks. If he has a job and is taking care of his own needs, he is not a drain on society. And he is contributing to society at least in one way I know of. He is offering interesting thoughts and perspectives on this forum. Maybe he thinks outside the box, but I respect that. Look where status quo thinking has gotten us?
more power to you... that is really all i can say to this...
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If he has a job and is taking care of his own needs, he is not a drain on society.
there is more to being a drain on society than just not working or taking care of your own needs.
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And he is contributing to society at least in one way I know of. He is offering interesting thoughts and perspectives on this forum.
does that contribution include his constant refusal to actually stay on-topic? does it include his constant deflection and contradiction strategies? what about his inability to realize that generalizations and character insults are the result of logically fallacious reasoning, not well developed argument?
there was a darn good reason that tk was #2 on my ignore list.
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Maybe he thinks outside the box, but I respect that. Look where status quo thinking has gotten us?
i would disagree with the first part, in that this is the status quo. unresearched, emotional, logically unsupportable stances seem to be well within the box these days. if someone wants to prove to the world that they are a lone-wolf maverick, these days you need to use intelligent argument and brain cells. if you want to show us that you aren't part of the trendy world mentality, you need to post something smart, something researched, something that makes sense.
telling people that "society has done nothing for me," while luxuriating within the benefits of that same society is not thinking outside of the box; it is not intelligent; it is not slick. it is simply an ignorant, self-centered, narrow-minded unwillingness to actually use the few brain cells that you haven't snorted and smoked out of your head yet. period.
if you or tk want to prove to us that social contract does not work, then move out into the wilderness, forsaking everything that society has ever given you. then stay there; don't ever come back. if you come back, it will prove that social contract is actually nice and cuddly, and that you didn't have the lone-wolf, away-from-the-world balls that you thought you did.
as to the flaws of social contract, no one ever said that it had to work perfectly. it is arguably one of the messiest, sloppiest creations of humanity. but it is also one of the most brilliant, and it is certainly one of the basic developments that has made *everything else* possible. without it, you wouldn't have languages, math, science, technology, medicine, art, history, or anything else.
at the same time though, you wouldn't have war, abuse, intolerance, murder, rape, and many other evils to the same level that you do within a "civilized" society. those are all part and parcel of cooperative living among imperfect beings. but even in the instances where society has been more of a negative impact on an individual than a positive, that individual cannot accurately say that "society has never done anything for me." it just doesn't work that way. getting mad at gravity after you fall and scrape your knee is about as effective; there are just too many positives that make it pretty much impossible for us to do without.
if you really want to think outside of the box, stop taking the coward's way out by forsaking society, and start doing things to fix it. help fix the institutions (such as voting) that are obviously broken and need to be overhauled.
that would be dynamic and original. that would be respectable.
i know that i should just keep you on ignore, but this is too tempting a target to pass up.
i will address consent and any others that are under some kind of illusion that tk is making a decent point here, and i will address tk in his fallacious reasoning.
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Originally Posted by TKramar
Your social contract isn't doing a very good job, honestly.
quite honestly, it is a good thing that i already covered that. not such a good thing that you can't introduce valid points in an argument unless they have already been introduced by someone else.
further, your view of the situation is rather bleak and willfully blind. i have never said that society is a utopia, or that we are on the verge of perfection. but there is much good that is taking place in society, and that has been taking place in society for the totality of its existence.
for you to ignore all of that in order to focus only on the bad and then turn your back on the construct is the epitome of self-centeredness and fear. you run away from society because you are too caught up in your personal problems to try to make anything good of it, and too absorbed in your own fears to realize that they don't shackle the rest of us.
when a two-year old does this, we call it a tantrum.
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Just take a look at the world around you--that's all the "research" you need.
wrong. you and a that majority-in-the-box that i spoke of earlier are held spellbound by the foolish idea that opinion equals research, and that therefore your opinion has a valid place in an objective discussion.
your opinion is that society has never done anything for you, and that somehow, even living within it and by suckling at its teats, you have rejected it and walk by some rebel's code.
objectively, your opinion is full of crap and nothing more. you hide behind these fairy tale stories to assuage the wounds to your ego that society is "responsible for" even though most of them are on account of your own weakness. this is not bravery; it is not valiance; nor perseverance; nor honesty and forthrightness.
it is cowardice; you run from the truth because it says things about you that you don't like.
the sooner that you can realize that the world is not against you, that you are not a martyr, that you don't own some kind of universal truth that has been forgotten by the rest of us, and come to terms with your personal issues, the sooner you will find peace from the complaints against us, your parents, and the rest of humanity that you are always bringing up here.
Did you cut and paste this word for word from one of my old posts somewhere?
Personally, I think I can have a great deal more positive influence on my society by being a single visible example of virtue, than by casting a single vote for a man who promises to legislate virtue.
which part is virtuous? the smoking or the looking away when people commit crimes?
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