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This is one of the most compelling arguments there is for universal healthcare. These people didn't choose to be sick. They didn't play a role in developing their illness. They just were unlucky. In all the other industrialized nations, it seems that there is a sort of mandate that the cost of these sorts of illnesses should be borne by society at large rather than by these unlucky individuals. Universal care exists in all the EU Countries, Japan, Australia, and New Zealand.
One of the most frustrating things about living in America though is that libertarianism is carried by some to a ridiculous extreme. Many of these people simply believe if you are unlucky enough to be born paralyzed, blind, or with some other incurable health problem that its just tough. Its not THEIR problem and THEY shouldn't have to worry about you.
I think we will get a law passed soon that will prohibit private insurance plans from discriminating against those with illnesses or disabilities. This, though, will do nothing to guarantee that the cost of such insurance will be affordable. Until we get universal healthcare, I suspect most people in this condition will struggle and eventually end up bankrupt and than entitled to Medicaid. Its not very smart. It would be smarter to offer universal coverage to these people and keep them working, paying taxes, and contributing to the treasury. Alot of people can't think that far ahead though.
Great post. Couldn't agree with you more, although it brought a feeling of incredible sadness, that I live in such a great country as United States, and we cannot get Universal Healthcare like most of the civilized countries because of people's ignorance, selfishness and stupidity.
Great post. Couldn't agree with you more, although it brought a feeling of incredible sadness, that I live in such a great country as United States, and we cannot get Universal Healthcare like most of the civilized countries because of people's ignorance, selfishness and stupidity.
I could not agree more. It is the selfish Republicans, and even some conservative Democrats who have shot the public option down. Tens of thousands are going to keep dying because of this. Given my salary, I feel $50 a month would have been reasonable for me to have to pay for health insurance. But no, I guess now I get no insurance, and I am going to be fined for it.
I could not agree more. It is the selfish Republicans, and even some conservative Democrats who have shot the public option down. Tens of thousands are going to keep dying because of this. Given my salary, I feel $50 a month would have been reasonable for me to have to pay for health insurance. But no, I guess now I get no insurance, and I am going to be fined for it.
Oh please - stop the whining.
The American people do not want the Public Option because they see it for what it REALLY IS: a blatant attempt to get rid of private enterprises and have the government run / control all your health care. And, the American people do not want government run health care.
Want health insurance? Buy it - its available for less than @ 100 a month for a single person.
Say you cannot afford it? Then, work harder and get a better job!
Can't get a better job because you lack education? Go to school.
I'm in great shape. I'm young. My best mile time this year was a 5:43 (down from my peak of 5:12 in H.S.) I drink about 2-3 times a week (okay, in college it was everyday...but that's what happens being in a frat). I workout about 5-6 times a week (either gym or jogging). I would not mind paying for a person who would not qualify for health insurance.
My sister in law has cancer. She will NEVER qualify for any personal plan. She is in great shape besides having had cancer. So I ask, is this fair? No, of course not. One of the provisions is not taking into consideration previous conditions.
I would gladly pay for an alcoholic, diabetic, overweight, nicotine addict. I feel that every person, regardless of genetic or environmental disposition should be able to obtain benefits.
The American people do not want the Public Option because they see it for what it REALLY IS: a blatant attempt to get rid of private enterprises and have the government run / control all your health care. And, the American people do not want government run health care.
Want health insurance? Buy it - its available for less than @ 100 a month for a single person.
Say you cannot afford it? Then, work harder and get a better job!
Can't get a better job because you lack education? Go to school.
No one "owes" you anything.
You have to earn it
Your post is full of nonsense. Speak for yourself, YOU do not want government run healthcare. Thank God you're are in the minority. There are lots of people who do, especially the working poor who can not afford it, but make too much for Medicaid. I could get health insurance for $100 a month, but it would have huge deductibles and coinsurance payments. In other words, it is downright useless, no better than no insurance at all. You also know damn well there are no jobs out here, especially in Las Vegas with 13.4% unemployment rate, so that is not an option. And yes, the government does owe me. I have paid in tens of thousands of dollars in taxes in my lifetime. I feel I have a right to quality healthcare. I do have a problem with giving illegals free healthcare, but that is about it. Other than that, the current system needs a reform.
"Contrary to the impression given by this summer's contentious town hall meetings where angry and vocal opponents to the public option grabbed the spotlight, nearly two-thirds of Americans favor a government-run health insurance plan as an alternative to private insurers, the latest New York Times/CBS News poll found. Granted, poll results vary and depend heavily on how a question is asked, but the so-called "public option" garnered 65% support in the closely-watched poll, versus opposition of 26% of respondents. Support was down from 72% in mid-June, but remained at a level high enough to give lawmakers pause about rejecting it as part of the health-care overhaul that Obama and Democrats are seeking this year.
The American people do not want the Public Option because they see it for what it REALLY IS: a blatant attempt to get rid of private enterprises and have the government run / control all your health care. And, the American people do not want government run health care.
Want health insurance? Buy it - its available for less than @ 100 a month for a single person.
Say you cannot afford it? Then, work harder and get a better job!
Can't get a better job because you lack education? Go to school.
No one "owes" you anything.
You have to earn it
Now here we a have the typical right-wing hyperbolic rhetoric that does nothing to cultivate intelligent debate; half-truths, exaggerations, and pseudo-elitism only insult the intelligence of your adversaries and make you look like a brainwashed zealot.
You say, "the American people do not want the public option." Are you actually trying to say that not one American supports it or anyone who does must not be a 'real' American? It seems that you have made an innacurate statement.
"Oh please-stop the whining" is an insinuation that you think that anyone who has different ideas than yours should not be taken seriously. Those words are a classical attempt at trying to portray your adversary as a child not worthy of being taken seriously. Actually you were being childish, at best.
You tell people who do not have health insurance to work harder and go to school so they will have the same qualifications as those who already have health insurance; so therefore they will be able to get some. Don't you see how "communist" that is. You suggest that everyone needs to get on an equal playing field in terms of education and employment to get the same type of healthcare.
In a capitalist system you need the following basic requirements:
-the dirt poor
-the working poor
-the middle class
-the privileged class
-the ultra privileged elite
Why isn't anyone up in arms about socialized education. Can you imagine if this country didn't start out in the 1700's providing free socialized public education and Obama was now trying to put the government in charge of educating your children. There would be comments like: "the government has no business in my child's education" and "that is communism"....etc.
Our founding fathers did not put healthcare in the constitution because it was not a hot potato issue then. Food, water, shelter, and, medicine are basic neccesities of life. If someone had a problem feeding their children would you tell them to go get a better education?
There is a sentiment held by many in this country that if you are poor it is your fault. If you didn't go to college it is your fault. This system (capitalism) is set up to keep certain people poor, it is the foundation of capitalism, the poor are needed. To have rich you have to have poor. Why cant we provide people with quality healthcare, what is so wrong about that.
I visit my grandparents in Cuba twice a year. Cuban citizens have a higher life expectancy and a lower infant mortality rate than their US neighbors. There is not a big disparity in terms of illnesses there: that is that people of African descent do not suffer from diseases at a higher rate than Caucasians, etc. That is because the government provides free and absolute high quality health care for all of it's people.
Obama's plan is not perfect by any means, but it is a small step in the right direction. Telling people to go to school or get a better job is not. Your job and your education level should have no effect on the quality of your healthcare.
I have seen all kinds of insurance scams. If I work at the bottom, then the hours are deliberately set at 35 hours to ensure that I don't qualify to be insured. However, that very same company demands some kind of loyalty and jacks with the hours so that you have live under an extremely high stress trying to work with another job just to get the money needed to pay rent. So, you have two jobs and are working 60-70 hours and no money and still no insurance.
So, if you feel ill or sick, you don't go because it is $80-120 to walk in to a clinic. This is before tests. Tests are extra. That cuts your rent.
We have elderly people that cannot afford meds and have to try to get them from across the borders. We have kids that can't have meds.
It is real easy to start nailing people left and right. Do you realize that you can windup in the emergency room and if more than one doctor comes in to the room, and I mean just to peak in and say hello, you pay for him too?
To pay cash to get your teeth cleaned was almost $400.00 with out insurance.
If you pay to see a specialist without insurance, bet your sweet patootie you will get a different diagnosis then you would if you had insurance.
That right there, folks, is a problem.
I'm in a position now where, the insurance is aiding and abetting in layoffs.
Last edited by Pandamonium; 09-29-2009 at 07:53 AM..
The American people do not want the Public Option because they see it for what it REALLY IS: a blatant attempt to get rid of private enterprises and have the government run / control all your health care. And, the American people do not want government run health care.
Want health insurance? Buy it - its available for less than @ 100 a month for a single person.
Say you cannot afford it? Then, work harder and get a better job!
Can't get a better job because you lack education? Go to school.
No one "owes" you anything.
You have to earn it
wow. just wow.
since leaving undergrad i:
- worked for a few small businesses that couldn't afford to offer health insurance
- worked for a business that offered health insurance, but you were never sure if your benefits would actually be paid for because the CEO routinely "forgot" to pay premiums
- worked for a corporate owned business that offered health insurance to part time employees ... at least until they began cutting my hours with no explanation AND letting my insurance run out WITHOUT TELLING ME I HAD TO RE-SIGN UP, having paid a ton of premiums without even using the insurance.
- worked for another business that offered insurance, but i was only part time.
thankfully i now have insurance through my grad school, but if i want to get something checked out, i only am guaranteed 15 minutes with a doctor. i guess it might be good if I break a leg or something?
and that less than $100 a month insurance is generally useless. believe me, I looked it up after i got screwed. $100 per month is cute and nice, until you have to pay the ridiculously high deductible.
I just resigned myself to the fact that I could potentially have something wrong with me, but couldn't go to the doctor to get it fixed because I couldn't afford it. What an awesome way to live!
Want health insurance? Buy it - its available for less than @ 100 a month for a single person.
Sorry, but this is simply not true. There is no way a typical person is going to get health coverage for that.
And as pandamonium pointed out, in this day and age, a typical company is going to do what it can to not cover the 'grunts' who do most of the work.
I'm not a fan of the current healthcare system. And I'm not a fan of the current proposal either. I think we can do better than both. As I said earlier, the way the propsal is set up now, it's NOT going to do what folks think it will. It's a scam. We need a better plan that actually addresses the problem. Maybe the plan will morph into something better. I hope so. But I'm not holding my breath.
The American people do not want the Public Option because they see it for what it REALLY IS: a blatant attempt to get rid of private enterprises and have the government run / control all your health care. And, the American people do not want government run health care.
Want health insurance? Buy it - its available for less than @ 100 a month for a single person.
Say you cannot afford it? Then, work harder and get a better job!
Can't get a better job because you lack education? Go to school.
This is a perfect example of the kind of libertarian attitude I referred to before. In Greatday's world, everything is about the "individual". I wonder if he ever has been seriously ill or has a family member with a chronic illness. Let's rebutt a few of his points:
1. The American people do not want a public option.
Wrong. Recent polls show majority support for the public option. Its private health insurance companies and the republican party that are against it. Oh, I left out the folks who go to all the "teaparties". (This is the same crowd who felt it was "viable option" to let all the banks in this country fail during the financial crisis last year)
2. Want health insurance buy it!
Wrong, what Greatday leaves out here is that you can't buy it if you have a chronic illness or serious health problem. The insurance companies have a profit to make and you are "unprofitable" if you suffer from that kind of condition. You don't qualify for Medicaid unless your income is quite low. You don't qualify for Medicare until you hit your mid-sixties in most cases. I know people who want health insurance who are willing to pay quite a bit to get it and the problem is very simple. Its not just expensive, its literally UNAVAILABLE to them. You see, that "free market" you conservatives are always touting doesn't function as well as you claim it does.
3. Say you cannot afford it? Work harder or get a better job!
Wrong. What do you do Greatday when the economy is so down that 10% of the work force is unemployed? Or, if your employer discontinues health insurance because costs increased 13% last year? Do you know that most employer health plans have waiting periods? You don't get automatically on the company plan when you do get that "better job". You often have to wait six months to get on the company plan to make sure you aren't a "high risk". Another thing that you and the conservative crowd seem to blissfully forget is that one reason we are having a problem competing with businesses in foreign countries is that our employers are all saddled with the high cost of health insurance. There are many reasons GM went bankrupt, but one of them had to do with the high cost of employee health insurance. I support a single payer national health insurance system among other reasons because it places businesses in our country at a competitive disadvantage to countries with one.
4. Can't get a better job, go to school!
Wrong. Tuition at schools is also at a record high right now. Usually people find out they need a better health care plan than the one they have once they are sick. It can be pretty hard to go to school and be sick at the same time even if you can afford the tuition.
5. No one owes you anything.
I won't say "wrong" to this one. What I will repeat is that every industrialized country except the USA has in place a system of universal health care. I think there is more than just "entitlement" going on here. I think other countries have learned that the type of system we have in the USA places employers at a competitive disadvantage. I think they have learned its cheaper to get sick people a family doctor and treat them in a physician's office rather than pay for emergency care and hospitalization later. There are also image questions. Other countries have enough self respect to not want to be thought of as places where their poor are dumped and abandoned and left to fend for themselves without support. It bothers me that a country as wealthy as the USA still can't come up with a healthcare system that sees to it that everyone gets the most basic care.
It just goes to show Greatday, that you and your rightwing buddies spout alot of nonsense without doing any real thinking first.
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It is the selfish Republicans, and even some conservative Democrats who have shot the public option down. Tens of thousands are going to keep dying because of this. Given my salary, I feel $50 a month would have been reasonable for me to have to pay for health insurance. But no, I guess now I get no insurance, and I am going to be fined for it.
