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I agree with most of your post. But, I think you are glossing over the fact that MILITANT Muslim extremists (not the normal Muslim) have huge financial backing from very rich states. They are well armed. They are well versed in our strengths and weaknesses. They know how to exploit those weaknesses. They are very aggressive in their aims. They will stop at nothing and do not care if they die while trying.
How much major financial/moral backing and training from foreign states did Eric Rudolph have?
I agree with your statement that a terrorist is a terrorist (as evidenced in my last post). But why do some of you constantly discount the danger of militant extremist Muslims? I don't think anyone is stating that all Muslims are terrorists. That's one extreme view. Many of you choose to take the other extreme view: no Muslims are terrorists. They are there and they are a threat, just like any other terrorist. Ignoring it isn't going to help. Excusing it isn't going to help.
I am not saying that there aren't any Muslim terrorists. I am not discouting the idea that there are Musllim terrorists. What I am seeing that there people people paying much more attention to Muslims doing it than anyone else. We are paying much more and closer attention to the terrorists that are coming from outside of our shores than we are to the terrorists inside our borders. Both forms of terror are bad, but we need to differentiate between extremists and the persons who aren't terrorists.
My argument is that there is a danger, but its not such a great danger that we should ban an entire ethnic group because a small percentage of their population are extremists.
Yes, this makes perfect sense. The problem is, as it is with many other things, we tend to be polarized. It can only be one way or the other. That is simply not true. It's only after paying more attention to these sorts of things that I've really come to understand what the postmodernist movement was motivated by. It's obvious we live in a black and white society. There are seldom shades of gray between anything for most people. In this case, we have half the people ignoring the threat completely and the other half with pitchforks and torches. I have to say that both approaches are a bit silly (and dangerous).
This is the land of the free, and the home of the brave right?
A recent pole in the political section got me thinking. Over 50% of those polled said we should discontinue Muslim immigration for the next 20 years or so.
To me this is crazy. Are we so afraid of a few extreme idiots that we will ban an entire ethnic group because of our fear?
People were more than happy to give up their rights to warrents for wiretapping, their freedom of checking out a book without the government monitoring it. The freedom of walking our relatives to the airport gate.
Freedom isn't free people. That doesn't just mean soldiers fighting for us. That means you've got to live with a certain amount of risk to enjoy the freedom that you do have. Don't we realize how hard it is to get freedoms back, once they are taken away?
I fear that because Americans have always lived in a free society, that they don't know what its like to live in a place where you aren't free to do whatever you want.
As for me, I'll take Patrick Henrys approach
"Give me liberty, or give me death!"
I'm more than happy to give my life to a few Arab idiots in order to keep my country free. Apparently many Americans are willing to do that anymore, and would rather give up their freedoms.
And before anyone asks, yes, I have served my country.
Im not convinced that Islam is foundationally peaceful ; even Muslim Fundamentalists think Mohammed was the greatest Prophet who is worshipped and adored . He is historically confirmed to be a tyrannical Militant, Polygamist, Rapist, and even took a 12 year old as his Wife --- not exactly a sound example of peace, humility, compassion, and love to his modern day Followers.
Im not convinced that Islam is foundationally peaceful ; even Muslim Fundamentalists think Mohammed was the greatest Prophet who is worshipped and adored . He is historically confirmed to be a tyrannical Militant, Polygamist, Rapist, and even took a 12 year old as his Wife --- not exactly a sound example of peace, humility, compassion, and love to his modern day Followers.
And how is that different than most of the Popes? The very embodiment of Christ on Earth?
Looked to me like you were merely trying to be insulting at Side A for harping on terrorists, and Side B for pointing out the more immediate danger of our home grown radicals.
History is fascinating. If we look at any peoples from around the world hard enough, we can find that at some time or another, they have engaged in acts of war or cruelty against other peoples. My forefathers plundered most of Europe for hundreds of years, raping and pillaging. What did your forefathers do? The question is, does that matter right now?
If you are of European decent, does it outrage you that the Huns plundered Europe? That the Vikings plundered Europe? That Genghis Khan plundered Europe? It's all very interesting to me, but why should I care? Does it matter right now what a pope did a thousand years ago? It really shouldn't. We don't have to live our forefather's lives.
So, why do we slaughter each other RIGHT NOW because of what our forefathers did a thousand years ago? Or five hundred? Or a hundred? Why does it matter RIGHT NOW? How long will our species just keep repeating the same old BS? Groundhog Day, anyone? If there is a God, we must be a very entertaining lot. More fun than Civ IV, I'm sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxisMundi
Looked to me like you were merely trying to be insulting at Side A for harping on terrorists, and Side B for pointing out the more immediate danger of our home grown radicals.
If I misread, I apologize.
I think both Group A and Group B are just too focused on discounting the other group. The thing is, the threats are not mutually exclusive. They both exist. And they both cause us a whole bunch of grief.
Army of God - Bombs abortion clinics, responsible for the assasination of 11 people, hundreds of assaults and intimidation including mailing fake anthrax letters and stalking nurses. Currently active.
Also listed among American Christian Terrorist Organizations, some active, some past - Christian Identity, Christian Patriots, Lambs of Christ, the Klan, and Concerned Christians, deported from Israel for planning suicide attacks agaisnt Holy Sites.
The National Liberation Front of Tipura - Considered by the National Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism to be one of the ten most active terrorist groups in the world.
Also in India are the Nagaland Rebels, comprising of Christians seeking to establish a Christian homeland.
Let us not forget the conflict in Ireland either, conducted by two warring Christian factions. And please, don't bother trying to claim that religion had nothing to do with it
Russian National Unity - Operates in Russia (of course) seeking to increase the Russian Orthodox Church's power in politics, and is currently active.
Lord's Resistane Army - Uganda, uses child soldiers and terrorist tactics.
And that's the short list, which doesn't include defunt Christian terrorists groups, or the same with political motivations (ELF/ALF, Weathermen, etc), gleaned off of Wiki since news stories covering Christian terrorists are all but non-existant in the Jewish/Christian controlled media.
While Muslim Terrorists are certainly a concern, they comprise less than 1% of the total global Muslim population ofsome 1.5 Billion. As noted elsewhere on this thread, a person has more of a chance of dying by lighting strikes than by terrorist attacks in the US.
"In God We Trust" concerns me much more than some jihadist planning to blow something up. Christian terrorists, and fundamentalists as well, seek to use our own laws against us. Muslim Radicals bomb a plane, we pull together as a Nation and unite against them. However, the odds of myself, or someone I know being killed in an attack are infinitesimal, the odds of jihadists turning the US into some "Saudi States of America" simply non-existant.
The above Christian Prayer turns every non-Christian into non-Americans in the National Mentality. I've lost count of the number of times some gap-toothed redneck has brought the motto up in an argument, claiming that I am un-American and not entitled to be a citizen because of that damned replacement Motto.
This Nation's media outlets have villified the entire Muslim community to the extent to which we forget to look within our own borders at our own people, we forget that we have terrorists among us, the vast majority of Americans have no idea, or concern, about Christian Fundamentalists who wish to turn the US into their own Theocracy.
Are Muslim Radicals a danger to this country? Certainly, they are a danger to everyone, including their own people.
But while we are searching for the footstool of radical Islam in the dark, we trip over the couch and let "Radical Christians" have their way with little to no resistance.
I stand educated. Thanks! But now, tho', I gotta keep my weather eye on the radical Christian fundy movement. Crap! So... can we ask THEM to leave the country as well?
I wonder why George Dubb-Yah didn't warn me about them....
(So hows about a radical atheist movement? We'd just sit around adn do nothing. Maybe hand out buttercvuos to passing citizens, saying "Peace, brother. Learn the ways of the Truth, the Light, the Big Nothingness!"
That was HIM receiving that teachinng. One of a few Muslims receiving that teaching. How many Muslims do YOU know receiving that kind of extreme teaching?
Why is it that when there are 129 comfirmed terrorists who aren't Muslims who have done stupid stuff, deadly stuff, and we aren't checking every White person we see, but when a few Muslims do it, we want to check them all?The only difference I see is superficial. Terror is terror in my book.
You were saying that Hasan was a normal person according to his neighbors. Nobody suspected Jeffrey Dahmer when he was killing people and eating them. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold made a film depicting the way they were going to kill some people. No one took it seriously. No one knew they were building bombs in the basement of their parents' home, least of all their parents. Then on April 19, 1999, what did they do? They shot up Columbine High School, and planned bombings. They also shot a Christian student.
I know better. Everything I hear about people in the Middle East doesn't scare me. I know the difference between a terrorist who happens to be of Middle Eastern descent, and a Middle Eastern person who isn't. The way you talk, you are talking as if all Muslims and people from the Middle East are terrorists. My view is this: Stopping immigration doesn't help the persons who aren't terrorists, who don't want to harm anyone, who want to be here. It also won't stop terrorists from getting in. Terrorists do what they want whenever they want. Why else are suicide bombings happening? It also won't stop domestic terrorism.
Just because there are White people out there who committ acts of terrorism, that doesn't mean I am going to judge the entire White population in the USA. I know better. I know there is a difference between Eric Rudolph and my neighbors.
#1 - News report say that about 3,000 attend the same mosque in Virginia.
#2 - Muslims are connected by an ideology of submission through violence. I have posted statements to that end already. If the random acts of white people are connected in their ideology, then pursue it further.
#3 - Regarding the Rudolph statement - all white people are not connected to a particular religion or idea.
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