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There is a debate between Greeks & Macedonians,on the term "Macedonia"...
Let's hear the various arguments,mainly from Greeks & Macedonians in USA,since CDF is a USA forum & secondarily from Greeks & Macs abroad...
Let's keep it within the TOS,so as to avoid closure...
As I understand it, there is no issue except the name of the country. Ex-Yugoslavian Macedonia wants to call itself Macedonia, and the Greek Macedonians get all bent out of shape. Everybody would be happy enough, I suppose, if the Skopje government called itself "North Macedonia" or something, but nobody will back down.
Like, neither the DUtch or the Danes made a fuss when some islands were named New Zealand.
Well,Dutch Zealanders & New Zealanders are...civilised people,they don't cling on names ,using them as tools of hate...
For an American,the dispute is ridiculous but...let's see what others have to testify...
Remember Macedonia did not become part of Greece, or the other way around, without one helluva fight. I do not understand why some people develop Velcro grudges that last millennia. This is apparently one of them.
I think it's actually kind of funny that old wrongs and hurts started thousands of years ago by people no one has ever met, let alone been wronged themselves, still causes so much hate to continue as long as recorded history.
It's like people want to hate something, their lives are too boring otherwise, and find it conveniently in any conflict in their past.
I think it's actually kind of funny that old wrongs and hurts started thousands of years ago by people no one has ever met, let alone been wronged themselves, still causes so much hate to continue as long as recorded history.
It's like people want to hate something, their lives are too boring otherwise, and find it conveniently in any conflict in their past.
Now u understood the ...soul of the Balkan people...
Hi huys - you are correct about the souls of the Balkan people. Our parole is always hate your neighbour (if he's different ethnic group than you) unfortunatelly it reimans for several centirues.
I will try to explain a little bit for you - hope you'll have time to read it.
The Macedonian problem on the Balkans is not only between Macedonian & Greeks. It dates back from the period of late 19-th and beginning of the 20th century.
Macedonia was then a Ottoman provice with a total area of approx. 69,000 sq km. All of this are included today in Republic of Macedonia, Greek (Aegean) Macedonia, Buglarian (Pirin) Macedonia and small areas in Albania.
No matter what was the christian population of Macedonia at that time (have in mind that this population wanted an independent country of their own since late 19th century - will continue for this in the next paragraph).... - the Bulgarians refered to it as Bulgarian, Greeks as Greek and Serbs as Serbian. This was why almost all the cities and village had Bulgarian/Greek/Serbian school and churchers all over.
The need of independent state or an autonomous region within the borders of the Ottoman empire, lead for the foundation of IMRO - Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization, which was founded in 1893 in Solun/Salonica/Thessalonika by local Macedonians. It was not far as the Bulgarians planted their political trees here to ruin it - which is why after the WW1 it split on two wings: one remained it first role - while the other became PRO-Bulgarian.
The Balkan wars have started 1911-1913 ... All of these countries who wanted Macedonia for their own - now all an ALLY against Turkey. Before the end the the first Balkan war, the Serbs and Greeks messed up the Buglarians who have lost most of Macedonia which led for an additional Second Balkan War between Greece & Serbia and Bulgaria as opponent - again for Macedonia (BG looses this war, and keeps the smallest part of Macedonia).
The First World War: Bulgarians have attacked the Seerbian part of Macedonia which was called Southern Serbia. Again because they wanted Macedonia so much... that is the main reason that lead for the Macedonian Front 1916-1918.
Between the 2 world wars for all the macedonians was the worst in their history. Neither the 5 centirues Ottoman rule could be ever compared to this. Macedonians were forced away to leave their native settlements from Northern Greece (most of them today live in Bulgaria, Australia USA, Canada, Poland & Czech Republic). Macedonians in all part of divided Macedonia instead of their -ov/-ski surnames got the new ones (Serbian) -ic, the remain in Greece - Greek -oulos/-idis, -Buglarian removed just the -ski becase -ov is the only surname form in Bulgaria. Forced to speak Serbian/Greek/Bulgarian instead of their mother language, Greeks were No.1 for this - who has spoken Macedonian - drink Ricinus.
The second worl was - again Serbians defeated by the Bulgarians in the Vardar part ( which is todays R. Macedonia) - same schools on Bulgarian, surnames different. E.G. my grandfather before the World was Petrovich, then became Petrov while orrginally my grandfather during Ottoman rule was Petrovski.
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The problem with the name Macedonia with Greece is nothing else than because of political reasons, Greece is afraid that should take back land/properties of Macedonians or their successors - and people that own old document which is proove for an land ownership are in large numbers especually here in Republic of Macedonia today. That is the reason that Greece cannot accept a country with a name Macedonia, nation Macedonian, language Macedonian and especially ethnic Macedonian minority in northern Greece and continues to block the EU and NATO integration of Republic of Macedonia.
What is interesting to be noted is that Greece before 1991 had no problem with the name Macedonia-for my country.
It is true that the Macs are "the Jews of the Balkans ",the weakest nation,without their own state ,till 1991,withoiut any Big Power as sponsor...always persecuted by...everybody else...
The sad part is that they succumbed to the greek mythological nationalism,messing with ancient Macedonians,with Alexander the Conqueror & so on...
The Greeks are the 800- pound gorilla in the Balkans,they are inside the EU & NATO & can play cat & mouse with the poor Macs...extorting them
Already the Euro Parliament issued a declaration against the "antiquitisation "of politics between GR & MKD...
But its a long way to EU-NATO integration...
If a nation becomes sovereign and independent, why can't they call their country whatever they want to call it?
There are two countries called Congo,two called Korea, two called China, three called Guinea, and several that just call themselves United things. What's the problem?
If a nation becomes sovereign and independent, why can't they call their country whatever they want to call it?
Exactly right. The "problem," if there is one, apparently emanates from Greece, which wants to reserve the name Macedonia for its own province. (This is what happens when someone else applies for the copyright before you do! )
Imagine what might've happened if the Skopje government had decided to call their new nation France.
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