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In a backwards-sort-of-way, I am of the mind of many of the white folks in this thread.
Black Americans need to own up to a painful truism, nothing can "Undo" Slavery nor is there ever going to be a day where the majority of White Americans either recognize or own up to the damage history cuased. In the end, I do feel it's better to bury the bone, so to speak, and realize that the current battle is to gain economic and social power, and nuture and support our own communites. I don't feel talking about history is productive. It only brings out wounds for those on the losing end, and smug denial from the winners.
As a Bi-Racial individual, hate and love comes from every direction. Living in a mostly white community, I have always known people who hold hate in their hearts for my background, and neither I nor anyone else other than Christ heal them. I simply live my life as best as I can and that's that.
In a backwards-sort-of-way, I am of the mind of many of the white folks in this thread.
Black Americans need to own up to a painful truism, nothing can "Undo" Slavery nor is there ever going to be a day where the majority of White Americans either recognize or own up to the damage history cuased. In the end, I do feel it's better to bury the bone, so to speak, and realize that the current battle is to gain economic and social power, and nuture and support our own communites. I don't feel talking about history is productive. It only brings out wounds for those on the losing end, and smug denial from the winners.
As a Bi-Racial individual, hate and love comes from every direction. Living in a mostly white community, I have always known people who hold hate in their hearts for my background, and neither I nor anyone else other than Christ heal them. I simply live my life as best as I can and that's that.
The truism is that blacks never progressed by “burying the bone...of truth”. Can you show me the empircal evidence of black progess that resulted from blacks "Burying the bone of TRUTH". The struggles of the 60’s were not over slavery, but rather, the issues of those times related to race. We also have issues of today related to race and it will not be over slavery or Jim Crow, but modern intransigence to black progress.
In a backwards-sort-of-way, I am of the mind of many of the white folks in this thread.
Black Americans need to own up to a painful truism, nothing can "Undo" Slavery nor is there ever going to be a day where the majority of White Americans either recognize or own up to the damage history cuased. In the end, I do feel it's better to bury the bone, so to speak, and realize that the current battle is to gain economic and social power, and nuture and support our own communites. I don't feel talking about history is productive. It only brings out wounds for those on the losing end, and smug denial from the winners.
As a Bi-Racial individual, hate and love comes from every direction. Living in a mostly white community, I have always known people who hold hate in their hearts for my background, and neither I nor anyone else other than Christ heal them. I simply live my life as best as I can and that's that.
Why should their be reparations for what happened so long ago? I had nothing to do with enslaving someone that todays black Americans have NEVER MET. It's that kind of ignorant thinking that causes the social rift. There was no losing end or winners of racism. There WERE people who were abused and mistreated, and there WAS people responsible. ALL those parties involved are dead. What would you have us do? Every white person needs to send a dollar to every black person, because whites owned black slaves? When will narrow minded people like you see that slaves were sold to the whites by their own countrymen? Slavery did not start in America, but it sure didn't end here either. But absolutely NO white person owes you, or any one you know, or any black person, for that matter anything for what happened.
Why should their be reparations for what happened so long ago? I had nothing to do with enslaving someone that todays black Americans have NEVER MET. It's that kind of ignorant thinking that causes the social rift. There was no losing end or winners of racism. There WERE people who were abused and mistreated, and there WAS people responsible. ALL those parties involved are dead. What would you have us do? Every white person needs to send a dollar to every black person, because whites owned black slaves? When will narrow minded people like you see that slaves were sold to the whites by their own countrymen? Slavery did not start in America, but it sure didn't end here either. But absolutely NO white person owes you, or any one you know, or any black person, for that matter anything for what happened.
First of all, reparations are a dead issue. This nation is 55 trillion in debt…..so no one in their right mind believes that would ever happen, when married with the fact that a large segment of society is still racist. Those are two insurmountable hurdles. Secondly, you don’t understand what citizenship means. When one becomes a citizen of this nation, whether by birth or by choice, they inherit the accrued assets AND LIABILITIES of the nation. There are many rights that Americans enjoy that come from the sacrifices of people hundreds of years ago. None of the people who made those sacrifices are alive…..yet you benefit from them today.
I have yet to hear a person make an argument about not wanting or deserving all the assets and freedoms born from the past……because they had no part in creating them or because it was centuries ago or because everyone who provided the benefits are dead. These are benefits they now enjoy through the rights of citizenship, accrued from the past. However, they will and do make the argument that THEY should be exempted from any role in the reconciliations of past liabilities created by this nation from acts sanctioned by the government long ago. You can’t be a person of principle and have it both ways. If you accept the inheritance, via citizenship, of the benefits of the past then you also are bound to the liabilities of the same past…….in principle. It’s a package deal. I understand your opposition to reparations, but your rationale is not tenable.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 04-29-2010 at 12:05 PM..
Why should their be reparations for what happened so long ago? I had nothing to do with enslaving someone that todays black Americans have NEVER MET. It's that kind of ignorant thinking that causes the social rift. There was no losing end or winners of racism. There WERE people who were abused and mistreated, and there WAS people responsible. ALL those parties involved are dead. What would you have us do? Every white person needs to send a dollar to every black person, because whites owned black slaves? When will narrow minded people like you see that slaves were sold to the whites by their own countrymen? Slavery did not start in America, but it sure didn't end here either. But absolutely NO white person owes you, or any one you know, or any black person, for that matter anything for what happened.
I don't nor have ever said I wanted any money from you. Contrary to what you may believe, most upstanding AA's feel the same (hood rats not withstanding).
If there is anything I could reasonably say I "Want" is for mainstream America to take a step back for a second and instead of simply blowing off huge segements of humanity as "Criminal" and "Inferior", rather actually look into the history of why things are what they are and genuiney reflect upon their own attitudes and how it helps or hurts the current state of the world.
I don't necessarily agree with Indentured Servant's tone or mindset, but the fact is that there is some truth to what he says. Just like there is truth to the fact that Black America on some levels is held back by negitive cultural mindsets. This isn't a zero sum argument with a "Winner" and "Loser". There's is some truth and hyperbole that comes from every direction.
As someone who is both Poor and Brown, It's not money or more government I seek, but the simple humanity of being seen as a Human Being and an American rather than a "Parasite" or "Thug". In short, I want acceptance.
I don’t know what is so terrible about my mindset or tone. It would help, for purposes of personal growth, to know the perceptions of my mindset or tone. I don’t agree that black people are held back by a negative cultural mindset. I would agree that African Americans, with an emphasis on “American”, have a negative cultural mindset. The reason that I say that is that our culture is not AFRICAN. Therefore, whatever culture we have it’s the product of America and its larger culture and it evolved over history to be what it is today. What shaped that evolution? We cannot simply look at things as if they had no evolutions, but rather, just one day appeared out of nowhere or that we brought this culture and behavior with us from Africa. I don’t say this with any negative tone or mindset. My mindset and tone is totally rationale. I believe that actions produce reactions and that effects have causes. To simply note a negative black culture is an observation of behavior.....but its not an explantion of how the culture evolved to be what it is today.
On an aside…..my cousin sent me this funny story the other day.
An old black man lived alone in the country. He wanted to dig his yearly collard green garden, but it was always very hard work for him because the ground was hard. His only son, Junebug Jankins III, who used to help him, was in prison. The old man wrote a letter to his son and described his predicament.
Dear Junebug Jankins III: I am feeling pretty bad because it look like I won't be able to plant my collard green garden this year. I'm just getting too old to be digging up a garden plot. If you were here my troubles would be over. I know you would dig the plot for me.
Love Dad
A few days later he received a letter from his son
Dear Daddy Jankins, Whatever you do, don't dig up that garden. That's where I buried the BODIES.
Love Junebug Jankins III
At 4:00 a.m. the next morning, FBI agents and local police arrived and dug up the entire area without finding any bodies. They apologized to the old man and left. That same day the old man received another letter from his son.
Dear Daddy Jankins, You can go ahead and plant the collard greens now... That's the best I could do under the circumstances.
Love Junebug III
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 04-29-2010 at 02:23 PM..
I don't nor have ever said I wanted any money from you. Contrary to what you may believe, most upstanding AA's feel the same (hood rats not withstanding).
If there is anything I could reasonably say I "Want" is for mainstream America to take a step back for a second and instead of simply blowing off huge segements of humanity as "Criminal" and "Inferior", rather actually look into the history of why things are what they are and genuiney reflect upon their own attitudes and how it helps or hurts the current state of the world.
I don't necessarily agree with Indentured Servant's tone or mindset, but the fact is that there is some truth to what he says. Just like there is truth to the fact that Black America on some levels is held back by negitive cultural mindsets. This isn't a zero sum argument with a "Winner" and "Loser". There's is some truth and hyperbole that comes from every direction.
As someone who is both Poor and Brown, It's not money or more government I seek, but the simple humanity of being seen as a Human Being and an American rather than a "Parasite" or "Thug". In short, I want acceptance.
Yet you want white people to own up to the damage caused by previous generations. You want us to say, yet again, what has already been said, time and time again? Slavery was wrong. Now what?
Whats amazing is that these individuals, and others, can disparage black people all day long and few, if any white people will put up a defense for black people nor will they personally attack such individuals. Yet, when I put up a counter argument which defends black people, whites come out the wood work attacking me, condeming me and calling me a racist. There was even a black person (supposedly), calling him herself "eevee" who came out with an energetic attacks against me, but was mute in attacking racist whites. If this forum is in any way a microcosm of America.....then black people will NEVER be equal in this nation. I think Jmadison and aveojohn are really speaking for a lot of white people....that is why they don't come out and attack these people the way they come out and attack a person like me, who are triggered to respond to the racist attack on black people, by giving the truth about the role white society played in putting blacks in these conditions that whites now use to rationalize condemnation of blacks.
wah, wah, wah, don't you EVER get tried ranting about me, lying, and twisting my words?? what are you going to do, whine about me on every thread you visit? truly pathetic, but I'm beginning to not expect much else from you (only reason I'm responding to this is b/c someone gave the heads up you were bad mouthing me again). go away stalker troll, and stop being such a whiny baby. again, I see no need to prove anything to you, a borderline troll, but trust, me, just b/c I don't agree w/ your racist views doesn't make me any less black than you (anyone who knows me of this forum knows the truth, so I need not worry what you think). the more you protest otherwise, the more pathetic you come off (again, compare rep points and the fact you've barely advanced in god knows how long)
you and JMadison are cut from the same thread-two people w/ very racist views. more proof that racism exists in people of all races.
I'm amazed that mods have allowed this thread to continue, considering how far off the original post it's become. sad how the Great debates forum as crumbled to just another P&OC forum...
wah, wah, wah, don't you EVER get tried ranting about me, lying, and twisting my words?? what are you going to do, whine about me on every thread you visit? truly pathetic, but I'm beginning to not expect much else from you (only reason I'm responding to this is b/c someone gave the heads up you were bad mouthing me again). go away stalker troll, and stop being such a whiny baby. again, I see no need to prove anything to you, a borderline troll, but trust, me, just b/c I don't agree w/ your racist views doesn't make me any less black than you (anyone who knows me of this forum knows the truth, so I need not worry what you think). the more you protest otherwise, the more pathetic you come off (again, compare rep points and the fact you've barely advanced in god knows how long)
you and JMadison are cut from the same thread-two people w/ very racist views. more proof that racism exists in people of all races.
I'm amazed that mods have allowed this thread to continue, considering how far off the original post it's become. sad how the Great debates forum as crumbled to just another P&OC forum...
nothing but more conjecture. I must be a lot worse than JMadison...given that you did not attempt to attack him....miss pro black....lol...okey dokey. That bottom line is that your actions speak lounder than your words.
Yet you want white people to own up to the damage caused by previous generations. You want us to say, yet again, what has already been said, time and time again? Slavery was wrong. Now what?
You're not quite getting it, are you?
How about instead of going around talking about "Black Crime", actually use reason and logic and realize that when push comes to shove, 99.99999% of AAs are not and never have been a danger to you and yours. How about instead of using BET as your guidebook to your perceptions, actually go and read some AA literature, or look up such men as WEB DuBois and Frederick Douglass. How about actually going to see some AA art, or maybe one day stopping by an inner-city YMCA and realizing all those little Black 4 yr olds have just as much potential and love as the Blonde ones.
In short, actually question your perceptions and what the evening news tells you. Maybe one day, Whites and Blacks can truly embrace one another, and threads such as this won't exist.
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what are you going to do, whine about me on every thread you visit? truly pathetic, but I'm beginning to not expect much else from you (only reason I'm responding to this is b/c someone gave the heads up you were bad mouthing me again). go away stalker troll, and stop being such a whiny baby. again, I see no need to prove anything to you, a borderline troll, but trust, me, just b/c I don't agree w/ your racist views doesn't make me any less black than you (anyone who knows me of this forum knows the truth, so I need not worry what you think). the more you protest otherwise, the more pathetic you come off (again, compare rep points and the fact you've barely advanced in god knows how long)
