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Old 06-07-2010, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,954,125 times
Reputation: 36644

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Bush used the right words, but had the wrong picture in mind.

"Left Behind" does not mean 'unable to pass standardized tests', it means the child's individual and personal needs for enrichment have gone unaddressed. But exactly the opposite is happening. A child who does not function well in a literate environment is certainly left behind by a system that considers literacy to be the only worthwhile outcome of the education process.

Children, each of whom is different, will never all bring the same capacities into the school, equally ready to be formfit into the same orthodox bubble-packs. It is unrealistic to expect children to all learn the same thing with the same degree of competency. But a child who is not mentally suited to flourish in a standardized curriculum will certainly be left behind of nobody pays any attention to his potential gifts to be artistically creative, to make things with his hands, to question authority, to form logical connections, to be a leader or a care-giver.

Einstein was a child left behind by a rigid public school system. Luckily, he overcame it and found his own way to great achievements. How many Einsteins did not?

Our children left behind are not the ones who couldn't do it. They are the ones that nobody asks "What can you do?"

Our nation was not built by men who could pass exams. It was built by men who could build boats and break horses and prospect for minerals and play the piano and enforce laws, who all brought their own individual abilities into the world, and were given a chance to do what they do best. No children were left behind.
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Old 06-07-2010, 08:13 AM
 
3,562 posts, read 5,225,158 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
Moderator cut: Off topic

Well, let me play devil's advocate.
If remember correctly this program started because there were enough people out there demanding changes on the education system becuase our children were lagging behind with many nations of the world.
Which nations are we lagging behind?

I hear that battle cry over and over again. Which nations?
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Old 06-07-2010, 08:37 AM
 
2,319 posts, read 4,802,649 times
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According to USA Today, fourth grade math scores at 549 in 2008 were slightly above the international average of 500. The score is "below a few Asian nations — Singapore, Taipei, Hong Kong and Japan. Eighth-graders scored 520, similarly above average but below a handful of other nations." Also, "USA science scores, unlike math scores, have remained flat for 12 years, while a few other nations have seen 50- to 60-point gains."


Here is another article in the Digital Journal dated 2009 addressing the US falling internationally.

The concern I have is over higher education and specialty degrees. An article by College News dated August 2008 (http://www.collegenews.org/x8764.xml - broken link) highlights that concern. I've heard discussions and read books about the coming American brain drain, and it's both interesting and alarming.
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Old 06-07-2010, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,954,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium View Post
Which nations are we lagging behind?

I hear that battle cry over and over again. Which nations?
We are lagging behind most industrial nations in almost everything. Ask a more specific question, and I'll provide a more specific answer. In some things, we even lag behind some third-word countries.

On a per capita basis, it is hard to find any international ranking in which the USA is in the top ten, in anything. We rank high for gross numbers of achievement, simply because we have, by far, the largest population of any modern industrialized country.

We have the sheer number to bludgeon any other country to death, but per capita, we are barely average.

If you never leave the US, and depend solely on world news delivered through the filter of the US media, and your knowledge of history is what you learned from Texas-censored school books, you can hardly be expected to have any awareness of how the US compares with any other countries.
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Old 06-07-2010, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,479 posts, read 59,771,962 times
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I still do not get the reason for NCLB except to generate a huge amount of questionable statistics.

Last edited by Green Irish Eyes; 06-07-2010 at 01:12 PM.. Reason: Deleted off-topic comments
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Old 06-07-2010, 01:03 PM
 
3,644 posts, read 10,938,945 times
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Bush used the right words, but had the wrong picture in mind

started under Reagan

Everyone who wants to politicize NCLB should at least keep their facts straight and out in the open. NCLB was TED KENNEDY's "baby". He started seeking support for it while Reagan was president, but Bush gave him the green light while attempting to "reach across the aisle". Just another failed liberal policy that is getting pinned on Conservatives.

The real problem with NCLB is that it assumes that all children CAN CATCH UP... that's just not true. Some folks don't have what it takes (IQ wise) to be more than a cashier at McDonalds, or to mow lawns for a living. And that's okay - or it should be. We all need someone to ring up our purchases at Walmart, to cook our Big Macs and to mow our lawns.

The standardized testing scores standards(ACT, SAT, etc) have all been lowered. Even the ASVAB is easier now that it was 15 years ago. Colleges have high drop out rates and it takes some students 5+ years to finish a bachelor degree because they aren't CAPABLE. And not even the best teachers, the most involved parents and the sharpest pencils could've helped. It's just a fact of life.

Common Sense 101 and Reality 101 should be courses taught in jr high - teach kids to live up to THEIR own potential and stop daydreaming about what the media tells them they can achieve.

We don't expect every child in America to be capable of throwing a 100 yard pass... and only a moron would believe every child could.
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Old 06-07-2010, 05:16 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,493 posts, read 4,551,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandamonium View Post
Which nations are we lagging behind?

I hear that battle cry over and over again. Which nations?
Do some simple research and you will find out. Just go to the wikipedia and look at the references under let us say "Education" and you may find lots of data on education scores and comparing different nations.

Seems you may have not read much the news articles on education that come up every once in a while and surveys on test score on math, geography, history, etc.

I am not going to do the homework for you. There is much information on this out there. The internet age does help you find this informaton easier and faster than I can show it to you.

You have a great day.
El Amigo
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Old 06-07-2010, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,954,125 times
Reputation: 36644
Here is a very useful website for anyone interested in seeing how the countries of the world rank in hundreds, maybe thousands of categories:

NationMaster - World Statistics, Country Comparisons
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Old 06-07-2010, 08:52 PM
 
3,562 posts, read 5,225,158 times
Reputation: 1861
Quote:
Originally Posted by sskkc View Post
Bush used the right words, but had the wrong picture in mind

started under Reagan

Everyone who wants to politicize NCLB should at least keep their facts straight and out in the open. NCLB was TED KENNEDY's "baby". He started seeking support for it while Reagan was president, but Bush gave him the green light while attempting to "reach across the aisle". Just another failed liberal policy that is getting pinned on Conservatives.

This is the report called A Nation At Risk. Please note that it came out in 1983.
The speech given by Ronald Reagan on April 26, 1983:
Remarks on Receiving the Final Report of the National Commission on Excellence in Education

You will notice in Education at Risk: Fallout from a Flawed Report there is information regarding what is known as the Sandia Report. It is very political. I will restate this: The movement for the privatization of schools began under Reagan. I stand by that.
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Old 06-07-2010, 08:55 PM
 
3,562 posts, read 5,225,158 times
Reputation: 1861
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
Do some simple research and you will find out. Just go to the wikipedia and look at the references under let us say "Education" and you may find lots of data on education scores and comparing different nations.

Seems you may have not read much the news articles on education that come up every once in a while and surveys on test score on math, geography, history, etc.

I am not going to do the homework for you. There is much information on this out there. The internet age does help you find this informaton easier and faster than I can show it to you.

You have a great day.
El Amigo

I have done research. I am assuming that if you have "done your homework" that you have the capacity to show me the differences in structure as well in those education systems. I am also assuming that you have the capacity to point out the level of diversity between specific nation states and ours.
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