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Old 06-03-2010, 03:16 PM
 
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What are your thoughts about No Child Left Behind? Do you think it's a good policy and worth continuing? Is it improving the education system in this country? What about teachers and principals - does NCLB encourage accountability or hinder teachers?

Thoughts.
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Old 06-03-2010, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Sango, TN
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Every teacher I know thinks its a bad idea.

Its a way of teaching down to a lot of students.

Let those who do well, do better. Let those who don't care about their grades, get a job.
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Old 06-03-2010, 03:44 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 22,453,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis1979 View Post
Every teacher I know thinks its a bad idea.

Its a way of teaching down to a lot of students.

Let those who do well, do better. Let those who don't care about their grades, get a job.
Agreed on all points.

It is impossible to NOT have some children left behind.
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Old 06-03-2010, 04:10 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
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Good idea, bad implementation for the reasons already mentioned.
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Old 06-03-2010, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
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Default Bad idea, not just bad implementation

I have spent 39 years in the public schools of Pasadena, California. NCLB is based on a deeply flawed premise, namely that you can legislate performance. Well, not everyone is academically talented, so it doesn't matter how much you modify the instruction (or the system as a whole), there will be some who are "left behind". We, as a society, have lost our common sense. And legislators, even more, have lost theirs. Not everything can be fixed by legislative requirements.
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Old 06-03-2010, 08:31 PM
 
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I'm disappointed this ridiculous piece of legislation has not been overturned.
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Old 06-03-2010, 10:50 PM
 
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I still don't quite understand the urgency with "no child left behind". The fastest growing occupation in the "knowledge economy" - truck driver, customer service rep, cashier, janitor. McD has #1, #2, #3 on the register. What is this all about? We want janitors with a Ph.D. in engineering (well, I do know a truck driver with a Ph.D. in engineering though ). Sounds like waste or more exactly attempt on the social control of the un/under employed masses.

You don't have a job? You can't make it on a minimum wage? Oh, that's because you were "left behind" by bad teachers, it's not because evaporating jobs and wages per se, it's because of you poor SAT scores. If you would "Not be left behind" green pastures are abundant out there (sneer). Simple, ingenious, cheap, effective, crowd control tool a.k.a. carrot of education. Sublime thought is inserted in children' minds "there is underclass out there, destined to work hard and to make little; that just the way it's, everybody with bad SAT score may join that underclass and it's nobody but poor test taker fault". It's ingenious. Kids would never ask the question like "why there is underclass", "Why risking one's life and health in underclass kinda jobs is valued le$$ than office schmoozing?". Kids know that free market is holy and it's all your fault. Kids who know these "truths" would not strike, would not fight, they would take whatever crumbles are given by bosses and say "thank you, massa".

Somewhat surprisingly, US education system overproduces talented & well educated (rather well specialized) technical grunts for the corporate machine. There are NO millions of college level jobs out there waiting for the kids who was left behind by bad teachers, there are no even tens of thousands of those jobs unfilled because of the lack of college educated grunts. It's crowded already. In the very best case "no child left behind" would shuffle (insignificantly) the cards of winners and losers in a job lottery (by favoring kids good at taking multiple choice tests under pressure). What would we achieve by swelling ranks of college graduates? It's one thing to flip burgers/drive a truck having a GED behind your back, it's quite another thing doing the very same things having college education behind your back. Anger, bitterness, disenfranchisement , debt.... you name it. American Ruling Class is playing with fire. Most (if not all) revolts in the recent history were done by underemployed college graduates without outlets for all those dreams and aspirations.
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:02 PM
 
3,651 posts, read 8,111,745 times
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From what I gather, the gist of this was to institute standardized tests (not unlike mini-SATs?) as opposed to teachers with more individualized plans which varied.

I think the reason this came about was because of all the idiotic whiners who cried that such plans often favored students and were in various ways "prejudiced" To its credit, standardized tests take much (most?) of that away; same test for everyone. Unfortunately, it also is a major step backward in teaching. REAL learning isn't about just memorizing facts and figures and spitting them back out for a test.

As stated above, we have lost our common sense and it only seems to be getting worse. In fact I think our society has completely lost its alleged mind.
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Old 06-04-2010, 12:34 AM
 
3,566 posts, read 4,489,505 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peppermint View Post
What are your thoughts about No Child Left Behind? Do you think it's a good policy and worth continuing? Is it improving the education system in this country? What about teachers and principals - does NCLB encourage accountability or hinder teachers?

Thoughts.
My thoughts are rather violent. I think you should know this in advance because it really chaps my hide.

NCLB was the name given when it was reauthorized. Re signifying already in progress. This game was actually started under Reagan. (I'm not being catty-my fingers are thinking outloud).

It is designed to fail. When NCLB first came out *new and improved*, that great state of Indiana came out with a plan that the world lauded. Of course, when you are 47th in the nation, you don't have any place but up to go. Just sayin'. The game plan is that each school must show X amount of improvement a year or face consequences.

Except, if your a top ranking school and can't go any higher, then you still fail? Yep. Make it so.

Initially, all scores will be tied together. If English is your second language, the tests will be given in English? Make it so.

Because of inclusion, all of those with severe disabilities test scores will also be included? Make it so.

On top of this, these are the core objectives in a certain class and the test that must be taken---but you may not teach to the test. And if we catch you---you're toast. Make it so.

I would like to add, who does that? In a school? These are the things that you must learn to pass the test, but we aren't going to study them and you will receive no direction........so the entire class is a mystery. We don't know why you are here. Who does that? Here is the data, memorize it. Don't learn it. Memorize it for a limited amount of time.

See, prior to inclusion, which actually means the schools are too cheap to pay for qualified instructors and I am going to bank of the pro-rights disability people, there were actually theories that stood a chance in education. Like ...IDK, recognizing that you were teaching at 3 different levels and designing lesson plans to accomodate. Now, the most memorable lesson plans (for one level) get the shaft because of these damn tests.

10 years ago, a teacher would tell you that the number one problem with lack of parental involvement is because the parents had bad experiences with the school OR the parent is struggling. Now, given the opportunity, the teachers will also say that the kids are far more advanced than the parents are. But, because of this NCLB the parents and teachers have been driven to scrapping at the bottom of who is accountable while the testing companies bank and the public schools are forced to close and education is privatized. Which was ultimately Reagans game plan to begin with.
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Old 06-04-2010, 04:12 AM
 
1,188 posts, read 1,998,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joey2000 View Post
From what I gather, the gist of this was to institute standardized tests (not unlike mini-SATs?) as opposed to teachers with more individualized plans which varied.

I think the reason this came about was because of all the idiotic whiners who cried that such plans often favored students and were in various ways "prejudiced" To its credit, standardized tests take much (most?) of that away; same test for everyone. Unfortunately, it also is a major step backward in teaching. REAL learning isn't about just memorizing facts and figures and spitting them back out for a test.

As stated above, we have lost our common sense and it only seems to be getting worse. In fact I think our society has completely lost its alleged mind.
It is worse than just that. Teachers teach FOR the test. All the energy of both the teachers and students are directed toward test materials only. Questions and answers that will be covered on the test. That isn't teaching at all. That isn't learning either. We will raise one stupid society if we don't fix the broken education process of our children. Students don't even enjoy learning anymore. Now that was a broad statement, but if you speak to the students about their opinion on time and effort spent on test prep...they hate it. Wonder why they may not do well on the test..they are tuning out, bored! What happened to making them excited to learn and stimulating their interests and giving them incentives for critical thinking?
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