Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Perhaps your perception would grow if you'd ever lived outside of SC and might then start to understand what I'm talking about. In fact, all you would have had to have done is read what I'd written and what criteria I was talking about.
I agree. There aren't any real cities anywhere in SC. They ARE ALL MICRO CITIES. So what? What is wrong with that?
Providence, RI is considered a small city and it has 175,000 inside the city limits. Newport RI has 28,000 residents and it calls itself a city but it really is just an historic colonial town like a smaller version of Charleston. Sure there are other things that make it a city just as there are for Greenville but I'm not talking about that.
If Providence is widely thought of as a small city, than how can Greenville that is 1/3 the size be in the same ball park?
Here's what comes to most people's minds when they think of small, medium and large cities. Based on this maybe Columbia and Charleston just squeak into the small city category. City - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City
By its non-agricultural population is a city classified: 100000-200000 a small city, 200000-500000 a medium city, 500000-1000000 a large city and >1000000 an .
Obviously there are other characteristics of cities to consider besides population which would include much smaller towns as cities as well. I'm talking strictly about a long and widely held general perception based on population sizes though as above OK?
That means based on the above definition, anything under 100k is either a tiny city or a town or a "micro" city.
This can't be used because different rules dictate what is city population and sometimes it's hard to gather "true size" of a city. City limits themselves are imaginary politically drawn lines for use of who gets taxed by the city. In South Carolina, residents have to agree to have their property annexed. The city can't just annex them against there will. Therefore, in a city where most people are conservative and against taxation, the city will look dramatically smaller. Greenville is more conservative in nature than Columbia and Charleston, so less people are accepting annexation. That's why we are annexing land before its developed here, in hopes of getting a larger tax base. Vacant land is easier to annex, but it takes time to develop it. So this is a slow method. You aren't going to change many people's minds on their political views. Their minds are locked like Alcatraz. So therefore you have immediate areas that abut against Greenville, but they aren't annexed because the residents don't want it. They even have Greenville addresses. Here are examples:
Berea 16000
Gantt 16000
Parker 12000
Sans Souci 8800
Taylors 22000
Wade Hampton 23146
Welcome 7229
This isn't all of them, but I think you get the point. All of these have Greenville mailing addresses. In any other state with annexation laws not set up like South Carolina's, these would be annexed already. Just those examples with some missing are 105k+, not counting what is considered city limits. Things aren't cut and dry. Here are a few cities considered much larger than Greenville until you look deeper.
Augusta 194k+, city and county consolidated. Using this method Greenville is 450k+
Greensboro 255k (can annex freely)
Asheville (can annex freely)
Fayetteville 123k (can annex freely, county/city consolidated)
Columbia and Charleston are more liberal, so residents more accepting of annexation
This is why urban area is a better indicator of true size. It isn't political in nature. Greenville's amenities were and are landed based more so on this and metro population. This is why a 60k city like this can have what it does. Of course you did say, "the average person" looks at city population; and when you put it like that I'll have to agree!
Is Charlotte really larger than Atlanta? You notice when you look deeper that it isn't. I rest my case. I've said all that I can.
Comparing the true size of a city is tricky. Greenville is larger than the stated population counts due to restrictive annexation laws, same for Charleston and Columbia. But, there is an element of truth about getting overly excited. While this is a nice project and appropriate in scale to the city, it is not a game changing tower. Maybe that will come later but, it is a 9 story building built with tax credits.
But, it is a nice project, I am not sure I would have done anything differently with the property.
Comparing the true size of a city is tricky. Greenville is larger than the stated population counts due to restrictive annexation laws, same for Charleston and Columbia. But, there is an element of truth about getting overly excited. While this is a nice project and appropriate in scale to the city, it is not a game changing tower. Maybe that will come later but, it is a 9 story building built with tax credits.
But, it is a nice project, I am not sure I would have done anything differently with the property.
Not a game changing tower, and that's not the point. But it is a game changing project for us involved. It is a game changer for downtown Greenville. Having the tallest tower isn't a game changer period.
Not a game changing tower, and that's not the point. But it is a game changing project for us involved. It is a game changer for downtown Greenville. Having the tallest tower isn't a game changer period.
I like the project. And, I like the creativity in getting the project financed. I think some developers in Columbia could use this financing model to get another tower built, maybe at Assembly and Gervais. Having Certus as a major anchor would make me a little nervous, at some point, they will most likely sell out.
But, overall, Hughes did a great job with the project.
I like the project. And, I like the creativity in getting the project financed. I think some developers in Columbia could use this financing model to get another tower built, maybe at Assembly and Gervais. Having Certus as a major anchor would make me a little nervous, at some point, they will most likely sell out.
But, overall, Hughes did a great job with the project.
Hopefully not. I like Walter Davis. Every bank had to start somewhere. I like there model. They are currently acquiring other financial institutions. Their continued success is important to Greenville and South Carolina in general.
Having Certus as a major anchor would make me a little nervous, at some point, they will most likely sell out.
But, overall, Hughes did a great job with the project.
That exact scenario actually played out quite nicely for the Greenville area recently with the acquisition of South Financial (Carolina First) by TD Bank.
That exact scenario actually played out quite nicely for the Greenville area recently with the acquisition of South Financial (Carolina First) by TD Bank.
It is a major addition of class A office and retail space to the city.
It is located at the corner of Washington and Main Streets, which most people in Greenville have long regarded as the center of downtown.
It is being built at a site that was vacant for years.
It is the biggest project downtown since the economic downturn of recent years.
If it had been built as a single 20 story building it would have made a greater impact on the skyline but the impact as an overall project would have been the same.
According to the website they have already leased a majority of the space which definitely increases the chance of building a third phase "signature tower."
Very true. My point is that it's not automatically a death sentence by any stretch.
I agree, it can turn out ok as the TD merger did. In that case, it made a lot of sense to use the existing building for support staff. But, Certus is a different animal. The people who created it are investors who will want a decent return at some point. Depending on the merger agreement and the partner, it could be bad or not so bad. I just would not feel good about a proforma with a start up bank.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
