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I'll note with considerable amusement that you just made the briefest pass at Hawaii relevancy on your way back up to your constitutional, ideological, religious soapbox. Which soapbox you are entirely welcome to - over in the P&OC Forum.
Without any further amusement I will zero in on your repetitious speciousness with regard to removing suicide as an equally destructive aspect of increasing gun violence. As a suicide counselor I assure you that the sound of a single gunshot followed by the clatter of a fallen phone, followed by utter silence is a quite uniqely unforgettable and uneraseable memory for life. Nothing quite like it. The violence of suicide by firearm is the number one choice of those in such despair. It is, like many other suicide paths, very often an impulsive decision. It is 95% effective, first try. There are virtually no mulligans ... whereas the majority of otherwise unsuccessful serious attempts by other means do not result in repeat performances after [successful] intervention.
The devastation of suicide for those loved ones left behind is every bit as great as from homicide. Furthermore, suicide leaves seeds for others in periods of despair - in far greater measure than considerations of homicide. If you think the people of Hawaii are so blissfully happy surfing and sipping beer under swaying palms at beachside that few experience despair and depression over illnesses, losses of love and loved ones, economic pressures, losses of self esteem, and even perceived adolescent slights on social media - you've been watching too many travel VLOGS.
Leave your guns and righteous arguments favoring them at home on the mainland.
Suicide is unquestionably the lonliest and saddest path a soul can take into eternity.
Not ideological, but rather philosophical. There is a difference between the two. To get into that debate would have to be reserved for another forum.
I am very familiar with suicide, my mother committed suicide. What I learned is if someone wants to commit suicide, they don’t need a gun. Suicide hits home with me.
I never said people anywhere are blissfully happy. I am fully aware of human nature and the hard truth is we are all broken and we all suffer. It doesn’t matter where you live, you cannot escape human nature. That conversation also would have to be left to another forum as well.
You are practicing what you are preaching against by standing on a soapbox yourself. Neither of us will convince one another of whose position is right, so I suppose we will have to leave it be.
Bringing your guns to Hawaii for home protection , I would consider not a good idea, but a bit more acceptable that walking around like a damn Cowboy with a pistol strapped on you.
I am a retired LEO, I have been visting the Islands since 1980.. I never felt the need to come 'packing' on any occasion, I came for the peace and beauty of the Islands,
I wanted to leave all the trappings of an urban environment behind.
Why you want to bring your NY attitude and lifestyle to such a beautiful place is beyond me.
Do you really need that 'crutch' of Having a pistol with you?
You crowed in another thread that the Mailman was checking out what a big guy you are .
Why not Just let your massive frame intimidate any person that you seem so convinced is going to try to do you bodily harm.
You seem anxious to 'fit in' on the Islands...Seens like the popular consenus of most people that live there, and are posting on this thread, is there is no need to carry a concealed weapon in Hawaii.
I suggest you listen...but I know you won't.
I'm hoping that your City Robocop attitude will diminish after a few years of Island living.
Not ideological, but rather philosophical. There is a difference between the two. To get into that debate would have to be reserved for another forum.
I am very familiar with suicide, my mother committed suicide. What I learned is if someone wants to commit suicide, they don’t need a gun. Suicide hits home with me.
I never said people anywhere are blissfully happy. I am fully aware of human nature and the hard truth is we are all broken and we all suffer. It doesn’t matter where you live, you cannot escape human nature. That conversation also would have to be left to another forum as well.
You are practicing what you are preaching against by standing on a soapbox yourself. Neither of us will convince one another of whose position is right, so I suppose we will have to leave it be.
Sorry to hear of your mother's suicide, as I am to hear of any suicide. But your personal loss does not constitute you being "very familiar with suicide." I am further sure that as a police officer you have encountered, sadly, many suicide scenes. Yet certain dismissive comments from you in this thread regarding suicide make it clear that you are really not deeply and thoughtfully educated as to suicidal dynamics.
For example, your repeated statement about "people who want to commit suicide" will find a way and don't need a gun. This is true. What you fail to understand is that most people who attempt suicide don't really want to die. What they want is to escape an urgent pain and sense of hopelessness.
Quote:
Attempters’ Longterm Survival
Nine out of ten people who attempt suicide and survive will not go on to die by suicide at a later date. This has been well-established in the suicidology literature. A literature review (Owens 2002) summarized 90 studies that have followed over time people who have made suicide attempts that resulted in medical care. Approximately 7% (range: 5-11%) of attempters eventually died by suicide, approximately 23% reattempted nonfatally, and 70% had no further attempts. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-m...tter/survival/
Suicide is most often an impulsive moment - even when derived of a long term consideration and struggle. To cite a specific category other than by firearm, bridgejumpers who survive virtually certain death -including from the Golden Gate Bridge where potential for survival is statistically zero when factored against the completion rate - all report impulse, and regret on the way down.
There is no removing suicide as a gun violence statistic. There is no diminution of its devastating effect on surviving loved ones and the impacted community. There is no justification for encouraging firearm availability to a community (in this case Hawaii) that fares so well without.
As for me thinking I can change your mind? Nah. Never crossed my mind. Too much life experience interacting with persons holding your convictions. What this exchange with you is, however, and I am grateful for the venue, is an opportunity to demonstrate to others the realities of the issues.
You are right, though: we are all broken, we all suffer, it doesn't matter where you live, you can't escape human nature. We are in complete agreement on those truths. What you can do, however, is gather factual information, process it, commit to understanding, ... and don't contribute tools for self destruction and misunderstanding.
By the way, I see you either don't know the meaning of the word 'specious', or at least don't understand it any more than you previously misused 'logic' in other posts. You haven't used the term 'specious', but you certainly are being flagrently so in your recent arguments. It doesn't work.
Because you disagree with me doesn’t mean I’m being specious. When you take certain elements out of your argument, for instance, suicide; your argument falls apart. Also, I have not used “logic” out of context. You have done this a few times and it is condescending and downright insulting. Though this is the go to strategy of the left when they can’t win an argument. As a matter of a fact some say it is the last refuge of an idiot.
Bringing your guns to Hawaii for home protection , I would consider not a good idea, but a bit more acceptable that walking around like a damn Cowboy with a pistol strapped on you.
I am a retired LEO, I have been visting the Islands since 1980.. I never felt the need to come 'packing' on any occasion, I came for the peace and beauty of the Islands,
I wanted to leave all the trappings of an urban environment behind.
Why you want to bring your NY attitude and lifestyle to such a beautiful place is beyond me.
Do you really need that 'crutch' of Having a pistol with you?
You crowed in another thread that the Mailman was checking out what a big guy you are .
Why not Just let your massive frame intimidate any person that you seem so convinced is going to try to do you bodily harm.
You seem anxious to 'fit in' on the Islands...Seens like the popular consenus of most people that live there, and are posting on this thread, is there is no need to carry a concealed weapon in Hawaii.
I suggest you listen...but I know you won't.
I'm hoping that your City Robocop attitude will diminish after a few years of Island living.
Yes. Vermont's a nice place, albeit too cold and nowhere near any salt water.
That said, if you go back and read the posts, you'll note we aren't talking about "violent crime rates". We are talking about "gun violence", specifically.
Vermont's death rate by firearm per 100,000 is 10.37 ... Hawaii's is 2.71.
9.6 as of 2015 and of the grand total of 70 such people (only 15 more than Hawaii) most were suicides. Take away the guns and they just use something else for suicide. The point of course is you're safer from violent crime in a state with the most lax gun laws than you are in the state with the strictest. I'll venture a guess and say if Hawaii adopted VT's laws you'd see no significant change in crime one way or the other. Gun laws have no effect on crime rates.
Unfortunately not. But I'm hopeful that the Supreme Court will eventually take up another gun rights case and clarify that the Constitution requires states to allow people to carry weapons on their persons in public.
If that's true, then someone should have told Ronald Reagan. When Governor of California during the Black Panther era, Reagan famously said "There is no reason why an ordinary citizen should carry a loaded weapon in public." This is true, he said that.
Last edited by slowlane3; 11-24-2017 at 05:26 PM..
It already went to the Supreme Court, and the 2nd Amendment was affirmed as an INDIVIDUAL RIGHT. Furthermore, Government does NOT grant us RIGHTS. The right of self defense is a Natural Right we have as human beings. It is only specifically indicated it shall not be infringed in the Constitution. Muskets have nothing to do with it.
If you really studied 18th-century Colonial militias, they were highly regulated with many pages of rules. Local authorities had the right to enter any member's house and inspect his arms, members could be fined for not showing up for musters, and the regulations required members to have muskets, but never pistols. Definitely not machine guns.
I highly doubt that NRA leaders today would go along with these restrictions. They conveniently only use one phrase of the 2nd amendment, while ignoring the full details, which don't fit their agenda.
Read enough, your posts are legion on this site, You can't walk without tripping over one..all mostly about yourself.
Leave the ordnance home.
Again, if you had carefully read my posts you would know my firearm is rarely ever on my hip when off duty. Other than that, this thread is a debate which we have been enjoying the free exchange of ideas. There have been many great points made and with an open mind the points made should be taken into consideration whether in agreement or not. In regards to my other posts on other threads, I don’t know what to tell you. It isn’t my objective to tickle anyone’s ears.
With that said it appears we are from near the same place. I grew up in the Lake Wallenpaupack Area.
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