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Um, no. I dont want to Pay for your health care, nor do I want u to Pay for mine. Free market, survival of the fittest. I dont want my problem to be your problem and vice versa.
OK, how about we don't help pay for your police and fire protection, the public schools you and/or your children attend, the street in front of your house, the highway you use to get to work, the local library, the tax subsidized sports stadium you attend, etc etc. Would that work for you ?
Thanks, but we already pay just under that per person.
You don't realize it, but you just proved qwerty right. The total cost of qwerty's plan is $623.82 monthly, but the employer is picking up the bulk of the tab. You're paying less than qwerty for your health insurance. This is because insurance, like employer paid payroll taxes, vacation time, sick days are all part of the cost of compensating an employee. If the employer was not picking up the tab for the insurance, qwerty's salary would (should) be higher.
All any employee needs to do is look at Box 12 on their W-2 and that will tell them how much their employer is contributing. Why the government requires this information, I do not know, but if I were a gambling man, I'd bet that it will mean more taxes in the future.
To get a "group" plan you have to be a member of a group.
If you are self employed the "company" premium still comes out of your pocket. You are the "company". The value of the deduction will depend on how your business is configured, but the insurance will not be free.
2 or more employees qualifies as a group, so you and your husband could be a group and get a group plan.
Obviously you are the "employer" as a self-employed person but again, you missed the point, your insurance premiums are a business expense, a deduction on your taxes, and again, when you can write off the premiums, do the math, you are paying way less than what people claim they are paying as a result. Also, unless your company is not making a profit, your premiums are deductible....
You don't realize it, but you just proved qwerty right. The total cost of qwerty's plan is $623.82 monthly, but the employer is picking up the bulk of the tab. You're paying less than qwerty for your health insurance.
I don't have the same plan that she does, so that would be impossible.
Here's what she said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwerty
If you want to pay the $623.82 for a single person under our group plan, I'm sure we could work something out. I, however, as an employee, only pay $50 of that
As noted below,
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010
A self employed person is paying both the employer's share of the premium and the employee's share.
2 or more employees qualifies as a group, so you and your husband could be a group and get a group plan.
Obviously you are the "employer" as a self-employed person but again, you missed the point, your insurance premiums are a business expense, a deduction on your taxes, and again, when you can write off the premiums, do the math, you are paying way less than what people claim they are paying as a result. Also, unless your company is not making a profit, your premiums are deductible....
Do you think a group of two can negotiate the same premiums as a group of 2000?
It does not matter whether it's a deduction or not. If the premium is $1000, the deduction may save $250, but the other $750 is out of the self employed person's pocket. He is paying both the employer's share and the employee's share. A self-employed person is paying more than an employee who has his premium partially paid by his employer.
Do you think a group of two can negotiate the same premiums as a group of 2000?
It does not matter whether it's a deduction or not. If the premium is $1000, the deduction may save $250, but the other $750 is out of the self employed person's pocket. He is paying both the employer's share and the employee's share. A self-employed person is paying more than an employee who has his premium partially paid by his employer.
Do you really think that groups have all of this "negotiating" power? The main basis for group premiums is claims experience. The table rating you get pretty much determines your premium. So, if you have a group of young, healthy employees, you will have a pretty low rate, if you have several employees that have been very sick, you are going to be paying a lot for your premiums. Being a small employer actually has many advantages over being self insured and quite often your premiums are lower because you are grouped with other small employers. Now, some groups get some discounts for bundling other types of insurance with their health insurance, dental, life, disability, but that doesn't always give you the best pricing.
Also, with the new SHOP set up, the premiums are a dollar for dollar deduction for most small groups....
Just some quick pricing from the GA SHOP:
Lowest premiums for SHOP health insurance plans in each "metal" category
Enrollee Age Bronze Silver Gold Platinum
Enrollee Age up to 20 $129.70 $163.59 $185.24 $292.34
Enrollee Age 21 $204.26 $257.63 $291.71 $460.38
Enrollee Age 30 $231.83 $292.41 $331.10 $522.53
Enrollee Age 40 $261.04 $329.25 $372.81 $588.37
Enrollee Age 50 $364.81 $460.12 $521.00 $822.24
Enrollee Age 60 $554.36 $699.20 $791.71 $1249.47
more specifically--for 2 50 year old employees:
Kaiser Permanente · KP GA Silver HRA/2000/40/S4
Silver HMO Plan ID: 89942GA0060011
Estimated monthly premium
$940.59
Deductible
$2,000
Family Per Person
$4,000
Family Total
$2,000
Individual Total
Out-of-pocket maximum
$6,500
Family Per Person
$13,000
Family Total
$6,500
Individual Total
Copayments / Coinsurance
Emergency room care: 40% Coinsurance after deductible
Generic drugs: 40% Coinsurance after deductible
Primary doctor: 40% Coinsurance after deductible
Specialist doctor: 40% Coinsurance after deductible
DOCTORS, FACILITIES & DRUGS COVERED
EDIT
This works out to be about $200/month less than our group plan
Humana · Humana Simplicity Silver 006/100 National POS - Open Access
Silver POS Plan ID: 93332GA0610048
Estimated monthly premium
$1,049.45
Deductible
$0
Family Per Person
$0
Family Total
$0
Individual Total
Out-of-pocket maximum
$7,150
Family Per Person
$14,300
Family Total
$7,150
Individual Total
Copayments / Coinsurance
Blue Cross Blue Shield Healthcare Plan Of Georgia, Inc · BCBSHP Gold Pathway X Enhanced POS 500 20 5000 Plus
Gold POS Plan ID: 49046GA0420006
Estimated monthly premium
$1,371.02
Deductible
$500
Family Per Person
$1,500
Family Total
$500
Individual Total
Out-of-pocket maximum
$5,000
Family Per Person
$10,000
Family Total
$5,000
Individual Total
Copayments / Coinsurance
Emergency room care: $250 Copay after deductible
Generic drugs: $20
Primary doctor: $20 Copay before deductible/20% Coinsurance after deductible
Specialist doctor: $20 Copay before deductible/20% Coinsurance after deductible
DOCTORS, FACILITIES & DRUGS COVERED
EDIT
Just a few options...this last one being pretty close to the plan we have for a similar price....
... the premiums are a dollar for dollar deduction for most small groups....
You keep harping on this, but for a self employed person any expense to his business lowers the amount of money that goes into his pocket. If you work for someone else and that someone else pays part of your premium you are paying less for your insurance than someone who is paying both the employer's share and the employee's share, even if the business can take it as an expense.
You keep harping on this, but for a self employed person any expense to his business lowers the amount of money that goes into his pocket. If you work for someone else and that someone else pays part of your premium you are paying less for your insurance than someone who is paying both the employer's share and the employee's share, even if the business can take it as an expense.
Tossing some numbers into a calculator for a company of 3 employees making 40K each, that credit comes out to just under $6000/year...so based on what my company pays, that means in this situation, this employer would be paying nothing for their health insurance plan for the year. I KNOW that is not the case with my employer.....
Yes, I keep harping on this because in EVERY company, someone is paying the employer share and if you are self-employed and don't UNDERSTAND that, you need to talk to your tax person. It is NOT coming out of "your" pocket, it is coming out of the business pocket, before it gets to your pocket. The same as it is coming out of my "bosses" pocket as the owner of my company...times 100+ employees though....
Tossing some numbers into a calculator for a company of 3 employees making 40K each, that credit comes out to just under $6000/year...so based on what my company pays, that means in this situation, this employer would be paying nothing for their health insurance plan for the year. I KNOW that is not the case with my employer.....
Yes, I keep harping on this because in EVERY company, someone is paying the employer share and if you are self-employed and don't UNDERSTAND that, you need to talk to your tax person. It is NOT coming out of "your" pocket, it is coming out of the business pocket, before it gets to your pocket. The same as it is coming out of my "bosses" pocket as the owner of my company...times 100+ employees though....
There is no credit for health insurance. Credits reduce actual tax.
An employer can expense health insurance. That reduces taxable income, but the full amount of the premium still has to be paid.
If you work for an employer who subsidizes your health insurance you will be paying less of your income for health insurance than a self employed person who is paying both the employer share and the employee share.
DH has a professional corporation. Income and expenses are summarized on Schedule K-1. What is paid for health insurance premiums is an adjustment to income on the first page of form 1040. In our tax bracket that results in a lowering of tax of about 25% of the cost of the premium.
Since all income and expenses flow through the professional corporation to DH, the business pocket is the same as his pocket.
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