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I think the use of the atomic bombs, as horrific as they were, saved lives for the reasons you said.
Dwight Eisenhower
Quote:
"...in [July] 1945... Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. ...the Secretary, upon giving me the news of the successful bomb test in New Mexico, and of the plan for using it, asked for my reaction, apparently expecting a vigorous assent. "During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face'. The Secretary was deeply perturbed by my attitude..."
Admiral Leahy (FDR's Chief of Staff)
Quote:
"It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons. "The lethal possibilities of atomic warfare in the future are frightening. My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children."
Douglas MacAuthur
Quote:
Norman Cousins was a consultant to General MacArthur during the American occupation of Japan. Cousins writes of his conversations with MacArthur, "MacArthur's views about the decision to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were starkly different from what the general public supposed." He continues, "When I asked General MacArthur about the decision to drop the bomb, I was surprised to learn he had not even been consulted. What, I asked, would his advice have been? He replied that he saw no military justification for the dropping of the bomb. The war might have ended weeks earlier, he said, if the United States had agreed, as it later did anyway, to the retention of the institution of the emperor."
John McCloy (number two at the War Department in 1945)
Quote:
"I have always felt that if, in our ultimatum to the Japanese government issued from Potsdam [in July 1945], we had referred to the retention of the emperor as a constitutional monarch and had made some reference to the reasonable accessibility of raw materials to the future Japanese government, it would have been accepted. Indeed, I believe that even in the form it was delivered, there was some disposition on the part of the Japanese to give it favorable consideration. When the war was over I arrived at this conclusion after talking with a number of Japanese officials who had been closely associated with the decision of the then Japanese government, to reject the ultimatum, as it was presented. I believe we missed the opportunity of effecting a Japanese surrender, completely satisfactory to us, without the necessity of dropping the bombs."
The US in the end decided to keep the Emperor - which they had rejected before the atomic bomb.
Admiral Bull Halsey said "After the invasion of the Japanese Mainland, the japanese language will no longer exist"
We'd have killed alot more of them that's for sure....
I believe he said "when i'am done with them the Japanese language will only be spoken in Hell".
Quote:
Originally Posted by austinnetx [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/history/223273-what-would-have-happened-if-we-29.html#post4483146"]http://pics3.city-data.com/trn.gif[/URL] Well, no.
Hirohito told his cabinet it was over with on Aug 9th. The Imperial Rescript to End the War was written on August 10th. On Aug 14th Japan told the Allies it would accept the Potsdam Declaration. Hirohito had absolutely no power at all. he was simply a figure head used by the military government lead by Hideki Tojo in collusion with the Zaibatsu (the industrial complex of Japan) lead mainly by Mitsubishii, Sumitomo and Mitsui. Hirohito is said to have been a biologist , a scientist etc...ask any Japanese. he was mentally deficient just as his father was. The Japanese Emperors lost power in 1620, gained it back momentarily with the Meiji Emperor (one of the few Japanese Emperors who was lucid), lost the power with the Taisho Emperor and never gained it back. The present Emperor's mental stability was also in question andi so he was, for the first time in Japanese history, married to a commoner.
Operation August Storm began on Aug 9th. Tokyo was not even aware of the strategic situation in the Chinese desert until August 15th.
The Soviets conducted amphibious landings in Korea. Anyone can walk off a ship. Which is what they did. They would have done the same in Hokkaido. To think that the Koreans were less soldiers than the Japanese is a mistake. Some of the most barbaric actions attributed to the Japanese Army were actually carried out by Korean troops. Not just anyone can "walk off a ship". Ask the survivors of the Normandy landings or those of Guadalcanal, Tarawa or Iwo Jima.
As for the Sov advance being a miracle, Stalin told them just to go like crazy without any logistical support. The advance petered out. Had Japan fought, the Soviets would have faced a critical period as the invasion was not sustainable.
We cannot say with any certainty what would have actually happened. I seriously doubt, given the USSR's performance throughout WWII that any invasion would have died out on it's own merits.I'd have to see logistically the proof of how the Soviets would have failed. They have claimed more than once that they would have been able to sustain the invasion of the norther island as they did Karafuto and the Chishimas.There is no record of that. I have to believe they would have prevailed as the did in Europe.
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirohito"]Hirohito - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_August_Storm"]Manchurian Strategic Offensive Operation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]
I am sorry but Wikipedia is a notoriously unreliable source. I put much more faith in the writings of Samson, Reischaur and Yoshikawa than I do that particular source.
So that Hirohito was "mentally deficient"! That's the most ridiculous I heard in all my life! Hirohito had very much power in Imperial Japan. And regarding your "faith", I put much more faith in the writings of Herbert P. Bix, Ian Buruma, Edward Behr, Laurence Rees, Yoshiaki Yoshimi, Seiya Matsuno, Akira Fujiwara and Akira Yamada than Imdo the writings you cite.
[quote=Tom9;4484022]
Originally Posted by austinnetx [URL="http://www.city-data.com/forum/history/223273-what-would-have-happened-if-we-29.html#post4483146"]http://pics3.city-data.com/trn.gif[/URL] Well, no.
Hirohito told his cabinet it was over with on Aug 9th. The Imperial Rescript to End the War was written on August 10th. On Aug 14th Japan told the Allies it would accept the Potsdam Declaration. Hirohito had absolutely no power at all. he was simply a figure head used by the military government lead by Hideki Tojo in collusion with the Zaibatsu (the industrial complex of Japan) lead mainly by Mitsubishii, Sumitomo and Mitsui. Hirohito is said to have been a biologist , a scientist etc...ask any Japanese. he was mentally deficient just as his father was. The Japanese Emperors lost power in 1620, gained it back momentarily with the Meiji Emperor (one of the few Japanese Emperors who was lucid), lost the power with the Taisho Emperor and never gained it back. The present Emperor's mental stability was also in question andi so he was, for the first time in Japanese history, married to a commoner.
Really? So, according to you, Hirohito whipped some soldiers while embraced others (that's what his mentally ill father did), rolled a speech document in the shape of a telescope (that's what his father did) and, finally (and always according to you), Hirohito was sent to his summer palace and die in Hatoyama while a Regent was appointed in his place... Did you know which Hirohito's father was sent to retire in his summer palace because of his mental illness (produced by a meningitis that Yoshihito suffered in his childhood) and Hirohito was appointed as Regent in his place for this motive? Are you saying that they considered that Yoshihito's mental state made necessary to retire him (incidentally, if Yoshihito's mental state made necessary to retire him it woul be so because he had power. If he hadn't, what did force them to retire him and appoint a Regent?) and then, they appointed a Regent that, according to you, was in the same state?
When did Hirohito anything similar to his father's actions listed above? When was he sent to retire in a summer palace while another person was appointed as Regent? Never, isn't it? And what is the impediment for an enthusiast of science or biology to have political power?. I don't understand your reasoning on this.
In short, as I wrote in my previous post, Hirohito had political and military power, he never was mentally deficient, much less as his father was (it would be very hard to practice the study of biology while oneself is a mental deficient, isn't it?).
If you need to check this, read 'Hirohito and the Making of Modern Japan' by Herbert P. Bix, or 'Hirohito and War' by Peter Wetzler, or 'Embracing Defeat' by John W. Dower, or 'Dokugasusen Kankei Shiryō II (Materials on poison gas Warfare) by Yoshiaki Yoshimi and Seiya Matsuno, or watch the documentaries 'Hirohito's War' written by William F. Northrop and narrated by Charlton Heston, or 'Horror in the East: Japan and the Atrocities of World War II ' written and produced by Laurence Rees and narrated by Samuel West.
Last edited by Oneofthem; 09-01-2012 at 12:28 PM..
Japan would probably be what China is today if we did not nuke them
and end their army.
???
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