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Old 09-27-2009, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Winter Springs, FL
1,792 posts, read 4,662,640 times
Reputation: 945

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
If you steal from me, I'm going to get in your face too. And you'll deserve every punch I throw at you.
Explain this? The Japanese attacked the US. Our goal was to stay out of the war as long as possible. In fact the Japanese practiced a similar phylosophy the Germans practiced. They felt they were the superior race and all others were inferior. Why would they not want to go to war with the US? One of the only exceptions was Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto. He felt that Japan could not win a war against the United States. He thought they could hold the US off for six to twelve months, but after that there would be defeat.
The decision was made to drop the bomb and end the war once and for all. It ended the war early and most likely saved millions of American lives. Talk to any veteran from the Pacific theater and they will all tell you they were glad it was done.
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Old 09-27-2009, 10:08 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,663,996 times
Reputation: 11084
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68vette View Post
Explain this? The Japanese attacked the US. Our goal was to stay out of the war as long as possible. In fact the Japanese practiced a similar phylosophy the Germans practiced. They felt they were the superior race and all others were inferior. Why would they not want to go to war with the US? One of the only exceptions was Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto. He felt that Japan could not win a war against the United States. He thought they could hold the US off for six to twelve months, but after that there would be defeat.
The decision was made to drop the bomb and end the war once and for all. It ended the war early and most likely saved millions of American lives. Talk to any veteran from the Pacific theater and they will all tell you they were glad it was done.
We seized/froze Japanese assets and took control of them, effectively stealing from them. It is not surprising they responded by attacking us, which is what FDR wanted. He wanted to get into the war, and the American people, as a whole, did not. However, he knew that once they attacked our citizens--serving in our military--we would respond by willingly throwing ourselves into the war. Thus, we declared war on Japan, and had war declared upon us in return by Germany. Now, we were in the thick of things. Thanks to our government stealing from the Japanese.

EDIT: As to your second point, while I do not doubt that our government was stupid enough to invade Japan, I still must insist that it was NOT necessary to do so. Neither was our occupation of their country afterwards.

Last edited by TKramar; 09-27-2009 at 11:01 PM..
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Old 09-28-2009, 01:16 AM
 
Location: Winter Springs, FL
1,792 posts, read 4,662,640 times
Reputation: 945
Japan was expanding its territories and gathering as many natural resources, i.e. iron ore and oil. Their invasion of China and Korea was for iron ore (to make steel) and Indo-China was for the French/Dutch oil fields. The US was supporting Chiang Kaishek's anti-Japan movement in China. The Lytton Report was issued in 1931 and Japan didn't want to give up Manchukuo (the puppet state of Japan in Manchuria, north-east of China). Japan then withdrew from the United Nations in 1933. The relations between the UK, US and Japan were aggravated after the Tripartite Pact (Japan, Germany and Italy) in 1940. Japan sent military to Indochina in 1941 and as a result, the US did freeze assets of Japan and imposed an oil embargo. On Nov 26 1941, Cordell Hull presented the Japanese ambassador with the "'Hull note". Japan took this note as an ultimatum. Local Papers reported so, too. Japan thought the territories which it had won before the Russo-Japanese War were legal and justified, as other western nations did. And thought embargo was unfair. But Hull note didn't admit it. Hence, their belief that they were a superior thinking.
The other difference was we occupied and rebuilt Japan and Germany after the war. Yes we occupied them, but we gave them back control of their own countries.
Another point is the fact that Toshio Tamogami, who was the Japan Air Self-Defense Force chief of staff, was sacked by the Japanese government in 2008 for making the same point you make with this discussion. The Japanese Government admits it was the aggressor in the war.
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Old 09-28-2009, 01:47 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,663,996 times
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Freezing their assets was akin to theft. It would be no different than someone mugging you and expecting you NOT to fight back. Obviously, you should fight someone trying to steal from you, threatening your life.
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Old 09-28-2009, 02:03 AM
 
Location: Winter Springs, FL
1,792 posts, read 4,662,640 times
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Assets were frozen, not stolen. By definition - an asset that may not be liquidated. It legal to do and is still used to this day.
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Old 09-28-2009, 02:26 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,663,996 times
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They were unable to access them when they needed them. Same thing. It was necessary for the health of their country, for their survival.
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Old 09-28-2009, 03:20 AM
 
Location: Winter Springs, FL
1,792 posts, read 4,662,640 times
Reputation: 945
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
They were unable to access them when they needed them. Same thing. It was necessary for the health of their country, for their survival.
I see the point you are trying to make, but the main reason Japan attacked The US was to keep us out of the Pacific Theater. Their thought was an attack on the US Navy would cripple the Navy, preventing a war in the Pacific. How Germany played into this was after the attack on the US, the Germans would declare war on the Atlantic side. The thought was the US couldn't fight a war in two theaters, especially without a Navy. The only problem, they missed the carriers and two, the resources we had in this country to manufacture supplies, weapons, ships, etc. The frozen assest I'm sure hurt them, but they wanted to take Indo-China. They had limited resources. They wanted the oil, ore, etc. They proved this by attacking countries in the Pacific long before the US was involved. The Japanese were not angels at all. The estimates are in the millions(between 6-10 million) of Chinese, Indonesians, Koreans, Filipinos, and Indochinese, among others murdered. We talk about the Germans and the several million Jew killed. That was a horror, the Japanese were far worse.
I guess an honest question would be, would you do nothing and allow this or would you at least freeze their assets? The assests meant very little. I feel it was a week move. More sould have been done. The Japanese pillaged their way through Indo-China. They were not paying for anything.
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Old 09-28-2009, 04:59 AM
 
Location: canada
13 posts, read 21,222 times
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The Japanese were surrendering .Why throw the nukes ?
Just like killing a dead man.
A black page in the American History .
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Old 09-28-2009, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,144 posts, read 42,138,196 times
Reputation: 3861
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Freezing their assets was akin to theft. It would be no different than someone mugging you and expecting you NOT to fight back. Obviously, you should fight someone trying to steal from you, threatening your life.
So what? Japan was already big trouble prior to WW II as 68vette explained and it needed to be put in its place.

A rough analogy today would be Iran: that nation is fixin' to have its head handed to it on a platter--------especially after the missile launches this past weekend along with a second nuclear facility being uncovered.
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Old 09-28-2009, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Wheaton, Illinois
10,261 posts, read 21,758,251 times
Reputation: 10454
The Japanese had a choice in 1941: to engage upon a course of aggressive empire building or not to. All followed from their choice.
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