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Just saw a program on History International tonight, "The Last Mission" While the coup was underway in Tokio to destroy the emperor's surrender recordings, a final B29 mission was executed that night. The target was Japan's last oil refinery in Akita, the facility was 98% destroyed. There was not going to be anymore fuel for any kamakazi attacks, tanks, or even basic transportation needs for Japan. The program mentioned that conventional bombing had been racking up civilian casualties in far greater numbers than the nuclear attacks on Hiroshima or Nagasaki. They probably would of surrendered within a few more weeks without the nukes, just by keeping up the conventional bombing campaign. So no need to argue about how many planes they had, because they couldn't of used them anyway.
Oh, and BTW, "The Last Mission" was a large air raid mission, with hundreds of planes that flew thousands of miles from Guam and back. Not one plane was destroyed, and they were informed before landing, that Japan had surrendered. The coup leaders commited suicide, and the program did not say if they had heard of the refinery blowing up before doing so. Perhaps, that was the last straw.
I have always wondered what would have happened in WW2 if we did not have nukes and there was no bombing of those two Japanese Cities. I suspect that the battle of the Japanese Mainland (including Tokyo) would have killed more people in the long run and the war would have gone on for many years. I understand that even kids as young as 7 were expected to fight against the Americans. Any theories?
The ultimate proof of the lie behind the Atomic Bombings is that we could have won the war by simply doing nothing at all. Certainly not on the level of destroying urban centers of gravity simply because they were easiest to spot.
Something equivalent to the ETO Transport Plan attacks on Japanese rail and road networks would have isolated the islands both from each other and their local government/manufacturing capabilities while taking things only a short step further with poisoning/incinerating rice fields (to be accompanied by leaflet drops giving fair warning) would have rapidly brought Japan to her knees using just tactical airpower from The Carriers.
And that's the real problem of course because the bomb was an Army weapon which had had the better part of 3 billion (20 billion by today's standards) dollars thrown at it. And like little children the U.S. military was eager to show off what they had done before they had to answer to a post war Congressional investigation.
That these 'patriots' were also rabidly savage monsters in their own right is easily proven by the fact that we could have staged a (much more impressive) waterborne demonstration for Nishina or Sagane which would have proofed the concept for him and the Japanese General Staff far more effectively (filmed) than we did by dropping letters with the Nagasaki weapon 'imploring surrender or there will be many more' to someone with absolutely zero political power to even reach Tojo or Hirohito.
Ultimately, the reality of the Japanese sacrifice has been the imposition of such horror upon the world that warfare itself has become an exercise in domino effect peripheralism. Whether this was a smart idea based on the need for population control and social pressure relief valve as well as resource amalgamation processes is not certain. I personally believe we have stepped farther away from civility and certainly intelligent understanding of the function of war as more than a 'moralist sport' since the two bombs rather than before them.
MPlic
P.S. Far from the '1 million dead' now used as a core excuse for the bombings, the original estimates for Coronet and Olympic were in the 25,000 range, the same as those achieved at Normandy. It is simply impossible for a foot-mobile force of spear chuckers and satchel bombers to mass in sufficient quantity BEFORE contact with American forces for them to create an effective fighting force. Samurai myth or no.
BUT the bottom line to me has always been that it's a GUARANTEE that more American lives would have been lost if we don't drop the bombs.... Such is war. Better them than us.
You can't "guarentee" something that never existed.
Just saw a program on History International tonight, "The Last Mission" While the coup was underway in Tokio to destroy the emperor's surrender recordings, a final B29 mission was executed that night. The target was Japan's last oil refinery in Akita, the facility was 98% destroyed. There was not going to be anymore fuel for any kamakazi attacks, tanks, or even basic transportation needs for Japan. The program mentioned that conventional bombing had been racking up civilian casualties in far greater numbers than the nuclear attacks on Hiroshima or Nagasaki. They probably would of surrendered within a few more weeks without the nukes, just by keeping up the conventional bombing campaign. So no need to argue about how many planes they had, because they couldn't of used them anyway.
Oh, and BTW, "The Last Mission" was a large air raid mission, with hundreds of planes that flew thousands of miles from Guam and back. Not one plane was destroyed, and they were informed before landing, that Japan had surrendered. The coup leaders commited suicide, and the program did not say if they had heard of the refinery blowing up before doing so. Perhaps, that was the last straw.
What I cant understand is why an intelligent country like Japan didnt have a democracy instead of an "emporer".
The only thing that is sure is that hundreds of thousands of people living in Hiroshima and Nagasaki wouldnt have been burned and vaporized and the survivors left with agonizing pain and disfigument and cancer. In my opinion all the comments about the horrible consequences of not dropping the bombs are rationalizations to avoid accepting responsibility for the act. If it had been New York and Chicago...I don't think we would say, "Oh ya, now I get it; they had to do it."
Mitsuo Fuchida, a pilot who lead the attack on Pearl Harbor and who was the last surviving flight leader in that attack at the end of the war, stated that had Japan possessed nukes during WWII they would have used them.
And lets not forget the predations of Unit 731.
Look, when you enter into war, you risk getting things rammed back in your face in multiples of the force you exerted. Japan decided to attack the U.S. (one of the biggest military blunders in history) and thus forfeited any claim to the moral high road. Admiral Yamamoto knew the risks and those completely foreseen consequences came to fruition for Japan. They had ample opportunity to surrender before the atomic bombings, but even with their ability to viably make war completely in shambles the Japanese military establishment decided to carry on.
What I cant understand is why an intelligent country like Japan didnt have a democracy instead of an "emporer".
Actually, they did have a democracy. Unfortunately, the Meiji Constitution was modeled after that of Prussia's, which meant the military got a huge say in Japan's internal and foreign affairs.
It was also a very class stratified society, much more so than now. So a democracy it indeed was, but largely a pantomime one.
And the emperor hasn't really had any actual political power since the first Shoguns emerged. Their existence has largely been ceremonial.
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