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I doubt it would have been wonderful for the people of the Soviet Union...
The Soviets defeated the Nazi's more than the rest of the Allies. How long if ever would it have taken the rest of us to achieve victory? Several more years war wouldn't have been a great thing. In the end 40 years later, the Soviet Union collapsed and disbanded with very minimal bloodshed.....
The other effect not mentioned is nuclear weaponry. The allies were working as fast as they could, but so were the Germans. Hitler never completely solved the problem, and they were still trying when they were retreating.
Hitler would not have hesitated to use nuclear weapons. The allies would have as well, but the Nazis knew full well the impact of direct actions on civilians and instead of two dropped, at the end of the war, there might have been a lot more.
The Soviet Union collapsed from internal reasons, not the cold war, and so would the Nazi's have in time, but the toll on humanity would have been a very high cost if it had not ended with Hitler's pistol when it did. You need to consider the whole picture and range of effects put together.
The other effect not mentioned is nuclear weaponry. The allies were working as fast as they could, but so were the Germans. Hitler never completely solved the problem, and they were still trying when they were retreating.
Actually, German management of the their bomb project was atrocious. The project was compartmentalized into groups working at cross purposes to each other and to individuals ends other than the realization of a German bomb. Germany never even managed to achieve criticality, which was famously realized at the University of Chicago before the end of 1942. Even then, it was still another two and a half years to the Trinity test. Despite fantastic claims to the contrary by some who don't actually have any substantive evidence to support said claims (ex: Germany conducted three test detonations before the end of the war), the totality of the evidence indicates that Germany was years behind the U.S. in the race for the bomb - and the U.S. didn't even have one until over two months after the war in Europe had ended.
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Hitler would not have hesitated to use nuclear weapons. The allies would have as well, but the Nazis knew full well the impact of direct actions on civilians and instead of two dropped, at the end of the war, there might have been a lot more.
Undoubtedly, Hitler would have used the bomb - if he'd had one or more. But a few things to remember. First, cobbling together one bomb was a Herculean task in itself. Then, cranking out a regular supply of bombs was another. The Manhattan Project was monumental, and Nazi Germany simply never had the resources, either financial or manpower, to divert away from the war effort and into a nuclear program capable of actually achieving anything.
Also, one needs a way to deliver a nuclear weapon. Germany did not have a strategic bomber big enough - the He 177 didn't have the payload capacity. And the V-2 had nowhere close to the capability. This in itself is a hint that the Germans were never very close to a nuke, and that they knew it. If they had been, they'd have made sure they had a means to deploy it.
But that was real plan! The Western governments waited and watched how to mighty countries are destroing each other.
The USSR appeared to be a winner, when they understood it. The Western governments organaized a foothold of their forces at the continental Europe.
The next step would be the attack of the USSR.
But then the Soviet bomb apperead.
The main thing for me is that when you ask such question:
Wouldn't it have been awesome had the Nazis defeated the Soviets and the Nazi's been defeated?
You've already put there the opininion that Allies were much better that Soviets. I think it's a controversial truth.
And we can see what happened to the world when the USA became a master of the world.
So we've already received that answer.
Wouldn't it have been awesome had the Nazis defeated the Soviets and the Nazi's been defeated?
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Originally Posted by mariez149
Even though realistically it wouldn't have been likely to happen wouldn't it had been amazing had the Nazis managed to completely destroy the Soviet/communist savages, had executed Stalin and all of his friends but the west also managed to defeat the equally horrid Nazis? Considering the Soviets and Nazis were both equally savage and lead by equally savage people could you imagine how different and better things would have been had the world been able to enter an age where neither the Nazis nor the Soviets existed? No Nazi Germany nor Soviet Russia, both equally horrible and both equally deserving of extermination.
Imagine had the two worst entities to have ever existed had been deservedly completely eradicated from the planet been completely destroyed how much better for everyone the world would have been!
As evil as the Nazis were and deserved to be destroyed it has always bothered me knowing we had to befriend and make deals with an equally horrid devil to do it. Had both Hitler and Stalin and friends been sent to the deepest pits of hell we could have avoided SO much unneeded despair and bloodshed.
That scenario isn't all roses.
If the USSR had been knocked out of the European theater, then Britain and the US would have paid a much higher price for victory. The reality is that the Russians bore the brunt of the war vs Germany; we were contributors but they carried most of the burden and w/o their continued efforts, the war would have lasted years longer and may well have ended in a negotiated settlement rather than an unconditional surrender.
Most Americans have little more knowledge of WW2 than what they've seen in a few movies where we "save the world." That's a very inaccurate picture.
The Soviets lost more people in WW2 than the entire rest of the world combined. The US and Britain lost a very small fraction of their total. The decision by Roosevelt and Churchill to supply the USSR with huge quantities of war fighting materials kept them going on the Eastern front and that drastically reduced the losses for us on the Western front.
Who knows. Mankind is chaotic and our events unpredictable. If the Nazis had defeated the Soviets then that would have left a power vacuum that would have been filled by who knows what. Another Hitler could have stepped in, a bunch of militants, a savage, a conqueror...etc. Sometimes toppling a government is even more dangerous and disastrous than allowing a bad one to thrive.
That scenario would have had happened had not Hitler being a nutcase. He only needed to bomb Baku out of existance. The saddest part is that German aircraft could have bomb Baku out of existance when they had Stalingrad.
The other effect not mentioned is nuclear weaponry. The allies were working as fast as they could, but so were the Germans. Hitler never completely solved the problem, and they were still trying when they were retreating.
Hitler would not have hesitated to use nuclear weapons. The allies would have as well, but the Nazis knew full well the impact of direct actions on civilians and instead of two dropped, at the end of the war, there might have been a lot more.
The Soviet Union collapsed from internal reasons, not the cold war, and so would the Nazi's have in time, but the toll on humanity would have been a very high cost if it had not ended with Hitler's pistol when it did. You need to consider the whole picture and range of effects put together.
Soviet Union collapsed from pretty much the same reasons the Romanov empire; it is nearly impossible to "govern" such a vast empire centrally made up from so many different demographics.
The Romanovs like the Communists after them did so only by keeping a firm hand on the wheel and lots of heads under someone's heavy boot. It is basically governing by fear over the ignorant. That and creating some sort of blind faith in a deity like person (czar, Lenin, Stalin, etc..) that the people will blindly follow regardless.
Who knows. Mankind is chaotic and our events unpredictable. If the Nazis had defeated the Soviets then that would have left a power vacuum that would have been filled by who knows what. Another Hitler could have stepped in, a bunch of militants, a savage, a conqueror...etc. Sometimes toppling a government is even more dangerous and disastrous than allowing a bad one to thrive.
In the hopes and dreams of many such a "vacuum" would have been filled by a Romanov intent on bringing Russia a modern democracy. Even if a socialist style government along the lines of France or UK.
But on balance your post is correct. Russia has never had a period without one person wielding immense power. Leaving a nation of that size on its own to experiment probably wouldn't have been a wise move. More so after Russia became a nuclear nation.
General Patton wanted to go into Russia and finish the Soviets off, but the government wouldn't listen to him.
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Wouldn't it have been awesome had the Nazis defeated the Soviets and the Nazi's been defeated?
