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As far as materials today being cheaper or inferior to days of old, that is simply hogwash. Quality of workmanship today is not what it used to be though. That's for sure.
I been building for more then 30 years and I would rather have my home built today with the worst materials available then yesterdays best materials available back then.
Put it this way. If a new home was built using top craftsmen who charge top compensation, the brand new home you bought for $300,000 would cost you $400,000.
Remember the trade off the builder has: One quality carpenter for $24/hr or 3 south of the borders for $8/hr each. The cost to the builder is the same but the 3 south of the borders provide the builder 3 times more work for the same money. And since the home buyer cant tell the difference nor do they give a damn about the quality, only price, then may the quality be damned.
The quality of goods today is driven by consumer demand for cheap. Dont blame builders. blame the economy, blame the consumer with the Walmart mentality, blame those who continue to support Walmart.
It seems that new (better) technology and more thoughtful building science has made it an excuse for poor workmanship and lazy practices.
I'm grateful for all the new advances in building practices, but unhappy at the service people have given, and also unhappy at the expectation people have of that service. It seems we don't expect 'quality' service anymore. I've had contractors work in my house and I could do a better job than them. I'm not even in the business! That should never happen. And, the homeowner should never know more about the job than the contractor. EVER.
I do see quality workmanship still being used. These people are very busy and never really advertise anymore. If you do quality work, you've got a job for a while and you can charge accordingly.
It seems that new (better) technology and more thoughtful building science has made it an excuse for poor workmanship and lazy practices.
I'm grateful for all the new advances in building practices, but unhappy at the service people have given, and also unhappy at the expectation people have of that service. It seems we don't expect 'quality' service anymore. I've had contractors work in my house and I could do a better job than them. I'm not even in the business! That should never happen. And, the homeowner should never know more about the job than the contractor. EVER.
I do see quality workmanship still being used. These people are very busy and never really advertise anymore. If you do quality work, you've got a job for a while and you can charge accordingly.
No problem in my job. I try to explain their water system to people. Their only interest is what is coming out the tap. My favorite is new construction. They want water pressure!!! That I can do!! Then they use water saving taps!! LOL
Ok I wish to add to this subject from my experience today. In the Houston area they had a home show tour today. It was a massive over 10,000 sf georgian mansion open for touring. It costs $12 to tour it but the money went to a charity. Each room had its own assigned interior designer go all out with no expense sparred budget. Naturally I headed right for the kitchen because that is my business.
What I saw disgusted me. The very first randon drawer I opened, the nails were shot in crooked and they were protruding outside the box and they just sprayed white right over the nails. Upon furher inspection I saw the same thing over and over. The plywood sides of the drawers were unsanded and just sprayed over which made them as rough as sandpaper. They just sprayed the interiors gloss white and sprayed right over the Blum hinges and excess paint was all over all the drawer guides. That was perhaps the worse display of "I just dont give a f" attitude. Spraying right over the hinges???? There was no door bumper soft closers so the doors just slamed wood against wood. The base cabinets only had a silly little half depth shelf.
Is this the degree of quality that is offered to the home buyer in the $3 million dollar range?
Which leads me to this thought: Are home buyers in the $3 million dollar range any more educated to realize when something is cheap junk any more or less then a $100,000 home buyer? I might expect this trash to be in a $100K house. Yet I watched people ohh and ahhing over the cabinets.
There was no door casing in the house. They used 1X3s. Now that is just butt ugly. Square moldings in a Colonial architecture house??? The ceiling fans were rocking like they wanted to fall down. The wine cellar lattice had more mistakes in the cuts that I started laughing out loud while some gave me a funny look. Gaps that had wads of wood putty to cover mistakes.
Is it just me or is the quality of construction tradesman going down the drain?
Just completed a small bath remodel (los angeles) and was unable to oversee the project.. I hired guys that I knew from other projects, told them I need quality and not speed, so charge me by the hour and do a good job.
Honestly, everything but the tile work was done half'a**d and thrown together. I have to call back every single tradesman and stand over them to re-install, re-align, level and/or secure about ten different issues. I have a fair amount of both remodel and ground up experience, and cant believe some of the visual and behind the trim mistakes these guys made.
There was a time when a contractor visually checked his work, then checked it with a level or a tape measure, stepped back and made sure it looked good, didn't damage anything else in the process and walked away proud of his work.
Regardless of what some are posting here go to Homeowners for Better Building and Homeowners Against Deficient Dwellings to get the real picture of how shoddy construction is. There are investigative reports done by major news stations regarding the extent of this problem with contractors and builders, The entire issue has become politcal in almost all states. Bills have come before legislatures to protect victims of shoddy construction but there are the big campaign donors who come before constituents.
Read the investigative report done by WESH TV in Orlanda Florida a few years ago in conjuction with the Orlando newspaper. Look for the reports by msnbc, nbc 20/20 and other shows showing how shoddysome work is and how people have little to no recourse in some cases. No these cases are not anomolies. There are good contractors but people should do their homework well before hiring anyone.
All the work with Habitat for humanity is awesome, however my builder advertises on their website that they work with Habitat for Humanity and some religious youth group. With that in mind why then have my children had to live in a structurally unsound and TOXIC home for going on 8 years. They haven't even come close to making it right. Their top offer 17,000 and with that we have to rebrick the house and remediate for mold and since they probably ruined the windows leaving no space between the brick and the window frame. Their is no recourse for us. They stole that right in the sales contract. They knew it was leaking with in two months of us moving in and did nothing. Just before the end of the warranty period (1 year) we retained an attorney due to them not giving a rats a$$ and offering to spray silicone on the brick and warranty that for 50 years. Yep, seal us in the mold!! My engineer has stated in writing that they are at this point fraudulent. If it would have been cosmetic we would have delt with that but this is of a much more serious nature. We worked with the legal system all to leave us 25,000 in the hole. To arbitrate would be another 25,000 so we are at 50,000. Since the arbitrators are biast we would be lucky to recover the 50,000.
As far as materials today being cheaper or inferior to days of old, that is simply hogwash. Quality of workmanship today is not what it used to be though. That's for sure.
I been building for more then 30 years and I would rather have my home built today with the worst materials available then yesterdays best materials available back then.
Put it this way. If a new home was built using top craftsmen who charge top compensation, the brand new home you bought for $300,000 would cost you $400,000.
Remember the trade off the builder has: One quality carpenter for $24/hr or 3 south of the borders for $8/hr each. The cost to the builder is the same but the 3 south of the borders provide the builder 3 times more work for the same money. And since the home buyer cant tell the difference nor do they give a damn about the quality, only price, then may the quality be damned.
The quality of goods today is driven by consumer demand for cheap. Dont blame builders. blame the economy, blame the consumer with the Walmart mentality, blame those who continue to support Walmart.
It has nothing to do with wal-mart and it has everything to do with the workers not being trained or caring enough. There are still homes that are built very well. But like anything when you can sell anything you build ;like in the boom standards of wrokmanship drop. People that are not skilled get hired . Too many builders that shouldn't be in the business. Too many job superintendents that are not quailfied.Basically many should not be in the industry at all;but demand drove the market. That is and will change.
In the state of Texas all it takes to be a builder is your name,s.s. # ,$500 and register with TRCC-texas Residential Construction Commission. (which is a big politcal joke-a commission set up by builders to make victims of builders think the state will help them). Not exactly a rocket science and just think one's like may depend on how these workers build.
The true craftsmen are aging out of the industry IMO. The young guys coming up throw on a tool belt for a couple of years and then strike out on their own thinking they know the business. There was a time when you went to school for your trade and then apprenticed underneath someone for several years before going out on your own.
The younger guys I know that actually put out a quality product grew up in the business working with their dads. My DH tells customer's that if they want the cheapest guy then he's not the one for them. He focuses on quality and that has kept us going strong while a lot of other guys in the business are shutting down due to the current economic climate.
I can't tell you how many times we bid a job and lose it to a low bidder only to get a call a couple months later from the customer asking us to come out and fix what the cheap guy messed up.
In the state of Texas all it takes to be a builder is your name,s.s. # ,$500 and register with TRCC-texas Residential Construction Commission. (which is a big politcal joke-a commission set up by builders to make victims of builders think the state will help them). Not exactly a rocket science and just think one's like may depend on how these workers build.
Yes, that might be so. But it probably is not like you make it sound.
That is probably more like a business license, not a license to actually do anything. In the past, in most states you did not need anything to be a General Contractor. Any homeowner could be their own General Contractor. Which basically is the ability to hire others. Dudes are getting ripped for another $500. It ain't just the builders, many places, they get $25K for paper by the governent to allow crap to be built. That is long before the first shovel of dirt gets moved.
In places like MA, you needed a license to walk the dog. Even if the dog was already wearing one. They even had a special license to inspect / repair fire alarm boxes. Those ones the dog might be walked by.
Most so called skilled trades require some type of exam, many states have other requirements on top of that. And yes, most of it you get to pay again and again. It is all about the money Dear.
Just think all this crap housing everybody is beefing about is built by folks with licenses, to strict codes, inspected till the cows come home by highly skilled and motivated, highly paid individuals. Or is the old joke actually true. More crap housing / repairs is actually done by those totally qualified (at least on paper), under the exacting requirements of permits and inspected again and again and again, long after the cows have made it home, than by the untrained and unwilling. They even draw it up on paper long before hand, and then more paper, more paper after that. They get to talk a lot too.
And the poor saps buying it, get to pay for it all, over and over again.
What a country, is this close to the Promised Land or what??????
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Dude is getting scammed.....
