Can Houston really be considered a cheap city anymore? (Dallas: living, cost of living)
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I recognize that you don't want to be considered a "right-winger" but given your reliance on these terms "forced-labor" and "right to work." I think you've probably got it coming. These terms have been market-tested by the right to be deployed strategically in arguments against organized labor. I also recognize your point--the economy is doing better right now in more economically conservative states. But to draw a conclusion without a warrant is dangerous here. The causes of economic hardship in northern union states are complex and cannot be gleaned by looking at one map. I would imagine even most conservative economists would tell you this.
I would offer that part of the reason "right to work" states are doing so well right now is because they are simply less ethical in terms of actual worker rights, environmental standards and tax code enforcement. This doesn't mean that unions are always right--they often seek benefits that will simply be impossible for an employer to provide without going broke. (As an aside, I can say that I actually moved on from a job because of unethical union practices in a union I was "forced" to join in my beloved home state of Michigan).
But even when unions demand "too much" what they are looking for is often no more than a sustainable living, inclusive of decent health care. If this is not "possible" for an employer to provide, then the problem may be elsewhere, such as in health care costs, ceo salaries, etc... Conservative are so resistant to union demands for fair pay when they are so open to ceo salary increases, without ever considering the cognitive gap in their thinking. A ceo can bargain but a union can't? As long as there is labor, labor will have value. Why should the laborer not be a part of the process of determining what that value is?
Finally, the quality of life here definitely suffers because of our open embrace of free-market systems. We have one of the highest rates of uninsured in the nation and one of the worst k-12 education systems. This is part and parcel of the same logic that has (however) temporarily brought us this economic "boom."
I'm going to respond to this but will re-direct back to the thread topic per Elina's request. I posit that the "chief" reason why Houston is affordable is real estate. This has been discussed ad nausem on here and even Houston's biggest detractors admit this is all Houston has going for it. The reason for cheap real estate is largely a supply issue. People are willing to live in master planned communities 60 miles out of the city. Along as that is the case, builders will build cheap housing and it will be bought. This has nothing to do with unions or labor or people being exploited. The other major variable is of course taxes. No state income tax, no city income tax, almost no gas tax and cheap property values which keep total property tax values reasonable.
To answer the question of the thread, yes, Houston is still considered a cheap city when compared to the top 5 large cities in the country. Maybe not compared to Omaha or Little Rock or Pensacola, but next to the majors, Houston is insanely cheap. One other reason I haven't mentioned as it fits into the misc category is that it simply doesn't have the cool factor that causes people to "overpay" to live somewhere. CA and NY being obvious examples. But even cities like Boston and Chicago and DC have that "it" factor going for it that drives people to those cities and gets them to pay above market rates to live there. Houston, as many have pointed out is a working city. There are no mountains, no celebrities, and almost no exposure in films and TV. It is what it is. But exploitation? I guess that will be a topic for another thread but all the items I have listed at least have nothing to do with people being exploited.
Katrina happened. ARM mortgages. 1. People excersing their freedoms in driveways. Drunks having disagrements. 2. Same neighbor from NOLA, wife was hysterical during the break up. 3. Same neighbor from NOLA, the guy vs GF's teenage son... just looking out for everybody(but also wanted to make them aware that this is not NOLA anymore). Another time, was a different neighbor that started working on their divorce
I had more experience with hpd response times actually. a few more by neighbors and also 2x my alarm went into duress mode and the cops came very quickly and even went guns drawn to the backyard where i was working on power tools. They thought I was breaking in.
(i forgot to add, to stay on topic)
I didnt have to pay into overpriced neighborhoods and their membership fees to get adequate service for my property tax dues (which is also quite cheap) .
Being a wuss and/or raising the next generation into wussies is expensive. just ask those guys in the exurbs and the older neighborhoods near the galleria
I'm not trying to be fatalistic, only realistic. Question that no one wants to answer is: How long can this last? As I said before, Houston is doing great, everything is going well. People have jobs here, even if they're low paying. Heck, yesterday I heard a middle-aged woman on the bus celebrating the fact that she were going to start at $8.00/hr instead of $7.25. (I have to say it's weird that I was getting paid that much three years ago as a student working part-time at a convenience store in Mass.) You can laugh, but this actually happened. If people are happy, who are we to knock them?
In any case, anyone have any guess as to how long Houston can go? Will something, if anything have to change?
Last edited by theSUBlime; 11-11-2013 at 10:10 AM..
What popular, commuter, master planned communities are 60 miles from the city?
Well, the Woodlands is what, 40 miles? You see what's going on up there? They are building, building and building some more. Soon you are going to see suburbs of the suburbs. People working in the Woodlands but moving 20 miles north of there for cheaper housing as the Woodlands area will become more expensive. As the city becomes more expensive, the burbs will keep stretching. At it's peak in San Francisco (2007), teachers commuted from Sacramento, yes, Sacramento to teach in the Bay Area. And it wasn't because of the rich cultural life Sacramento had to offer. It was because it was affordable. TX has a surplus of land and it will get used up sooner or later.
I'm not trying to be fatalistic, only realistic. Question that no one wants to answer is: How long can this last? As I said before, Houston is doing great, everything is going well. People have jobs here, even if they're low paying. Heck, yesterday I heard a middle-aged woman on the bus celebrating the fact that she were going to start at $8.00/hr instead of $7.25. (True, it doesn't matter that I was getting paid that much three years ago as a student working part-time at a convenience store in Mass.) You can laugh, but this actually happened. If people are happy, who are we to knock them?
In any case, anyone have any guess as to how long Houston can go? Will something, if anything have to change?
See, I'm not sure why that question even matters. It would be like me saying, I'm healthy today, how long can I go before I get cancer, heart disease or Diabetes? Do you really think I'm going to live like that? It will last until it doesn't. The one constant in all of time is change. Some things will change for the better, some for the worse. But instead of asking yourself how long can it last, why not enjoy it? Make some money, save it, invest it, and if these things change, be prepared. Heck, some people probably want things to change for the worse. God knows when I lived in NY I was praying for a depression. Anything to lower rents. My income wasn't tied to the economy but my cost of living was. Many of my friends and I joked what could possibly hurt NY. Then of course 9/11 happened. But even after 9/11, even after the 2008 credit crises, rents never dropped that much. I'm sure there are people in Houston, even people on this very board who would love nothing more then to see the energy industry collapse here and drive out all the Yankees and bring down costs. See, everyone wants something different. Such is life.
See, I'm not sure why that question even matters. It would be like me saying, I'm healthy today, how long can I go before I get cancer, heart disease or Diabetes? Do you really think I'm going to live like that? It will last until it doesn't. The one constant in all of time is change. Some things will change for the better, some for the worse. But instead of asking yourself how long can it last, why not enjoy it? Make some money, save it, invest it, and if these things change, be prepared. Heck, some people probably want things to change for the worse. God knows when I lived in NY I was praying for a depression. Anything to lower rents. My income wasn't tied to the economy but my cost of living was. Many of my friends and I joked what could possibly hurt NY. Then of course 9/11 happened. But even after 9/11, even after the 2008 credit crises, rents never dropped that much. I'm sure there are people in Houston, even people on this very board who would love nothing more then to see the energy industry collapse here and drive out all the Yankees and bring down costs. See, everyone wants something different. Such is life.
Equivocate much? I don't know when I'll get cancer either, but I do certain things to prevent against it. For instance, I don't smoke. I don't drink too much. I might die while driving but I do things to prevent against it, such as drive safely. That logic that you're slinging is absurd. Houston does need a plan to be more sustainable, when what is it, 8 of the top 10 employers here is an oil company--a company whose resources are absolutely guaranteed to end.
See, I'm not sure why that question even matters. It would be like me saying, I'm healthy today, how long can I go before I get cancer, heart disease or Diabetes? Do you really think I'm going to live like that? It will last until it doesn't. The one constant in all of time is change. Some things will change for the better, some for the worse. But instead of asking yourself how long can it last, why not enjoy it? Make some money, save it, invest it, and if these things change, be prepared. Heck, some people probably want things to change for the worse. God knows when I lived in NY I was praying for a depression. Anything to lower rents. My income wasn't tied to the economy but my cost of living was. Many of my friends and I joked what could possibly hurt NY. Then of course 9/11 happened. But even after 9/11, even after the 2008 credit crises, rents never dropped that much. I'm sure there are people in Houston, even people on this very board who would love nothing more then to see the energy industry collapse here and drive out all the Yankees and bring down costs. See, everyone wants something different. Such is life.
Dude, you have GOT to be studying Poli Sci because that's the best non-answer answer I've ever heard. In any case, the importance lies in not being extreme, short-sighted or limited to one side. Houston is working in this direction though.
And that is pretty sick man! I hope the normal people out there don't want anyone who means well, is working hard or is actually trying, to fail. I think once people realize that for every action there is a reaction, people get along much better.
Last edited by theSUBlime; 11-11-2013 at 01:42 PM..
Equivocate much? I don't know when I'll get cancer either, but I do certain things to prevent against it. For instance, I don't smoke. I don't drink too much. I might die while driving but I do things to prevent against it, such as drive safely. That logic that you're slinging is absurd. Houston does need a plan to be more sustainable, when what is it, 8 of the top 10 employers here is an oil company--a company whose resources are absolutely guaranteed to end.
Oh stop. Cry me a river. Houston probably has THE most DIVERSE economy in the country. Energy capital of the world, the largest medical center on the planet, the largest port in the US, the most robust manufacturing center in the country and the biggest construction industry in the country. You are twisting my words. I'm simply saying that worrying about these things is pointless. We are DOING plenty here. Stop being a drama queen on every single one of your posts. Name me one city that is more diverse then Houston and also has a stronger economy. I'm waiting sweat heart.
Wow, not smoking huh? Yeah babe, you're not going to get cancer. You got that one covered. Bloody brilliant.
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