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Old 08-27-2017, 06:48 PM
 
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Another heavy rain band setting up just West of Houston this evening, plus the continued large swath of heavy rains to their north that must eventually drain down towards the coast:
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Old 08-27-2017, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Big Island of Hawaii & HOT BuOYS Sailing Vessel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychoma View Post
Another heavy rain band setting up just West of Houston this evening, plus the continued large swath of heavy rains to their north that must eventually drain down towards the coast:
Psychoma, has anyone figured out if the dam at Lake Houston can be over topped by too much rain?

If it is over topped it looks to me like the whole dam would fail. Has anyone done a worst case for Houston if it did?
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Old 08-27-2017, 07:54 PM
 
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I am southwest of Houston. All of the heavy rains come at night. The daytime has been where we have gotten breaks from the rain.

This is the third night in a row it starts pouring within an hour after it gets dark.

Anyone have a theory why that is the case?
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Old 08-27-2017, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Big Island of Hawaii & HOT BuOYS Sailing Vessel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychoma View Post
Another heavy rain band setting up just West of Houston this evening, plus the continued large swath of heavy rains to their north that must eventually drain down towards the coast:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
I am southwest of Houston. All of the heavy rains come at night. The daytime has been where we have gotten breaks from the rain.

This is the third night in a row it starts pouring within an hour after it gets dark.

Anyone have a theory why that is the case?
Yes, If the sun is warming the clouds they are too warm to condense the water vapor. Think of a cold glass of water. Beads form on outside when it is cold with an ice cube. But beads don't form when room temperature.

It is normal to watch storm systems grow at night and then shrink in the day.
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Old 08-27-2017, 08:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmaise View Post
I keep seeing many records were from 1994 and it was not from a hurricane.

See: Flood of 1994: History could repeat itself - Houston Chronicle

I have been tracking the rise of the upper San Jacinto River and it still has many feet to go to match 1994.

This said, everyone said Harvey would dump the same amount of rain as that Montgomery County storm in 1994.

Further, instead of less building in the flooded areas of 1994 there has been massive new developments.

Everything likely slab on grade.

When Allison hit Houston there were over 70,000 homes flooded. At least these people should have been told to get out.

There were also over 90,000 cars damaged by flood waters.

You can research and quote as much as you want. Allison was a rain maker as is Harvey. Allison was a what . . . Tropical depression? It wasn't a hurricane. Harvey has the power of a cat 4 storm pulling in water from the Gulf and keeps rotating over land.


Some facts and new information back.


Houston is on the 'dirty' side of the storm = high impact. People knew to prepare. It was on the news and signs updated on the freeways. People didn't have much warning but at least Wednesday and Thursday. The storm hit Friday night just as my local news said it would. (See my past posts). They were also spot on with the storm intensifying and that it'd be a rain maker.


As for updates.
The two dams in Houston - Addicks and Barker are filling up quickly. Addicks will be opened to release water into the Buffalo Bayou - Which drains into the ship channel, tonight. The Buffalo Bayou is already at record levels. The Addicks will be released first and yes more homes flooding. I just watched the guy talking about it on the news that the corp of Engineers approved this plan, they have to relieve pressure to preserve the structure of the dams.


The flooding in homes is due to last night storm bans where some areas were having 2-5 inches of rain in an hour. Some places had 20 inches of rain in 12 hours. That's a lot more than what they predicted about 20 inches over the five day storm. The people being rescued by boat are those impacted by the rains Saturday night. Creeks are overflowing.


Hospitals in Houston aren't taking in any new patients, they are closed. Ben Taub Hospital in downtown Houston has a flooded basement, impacting their pharmacy and food stores. They will be evacuating.


The rivers upstream haven't flowed down to impact this area. Not yet. There's too much water being pulled from the Gulf, more coming in than flowing out. Remember this area is flat, little elevation. So the water just sits.


Rivers I've heard about with Harvey -- Brazos River. San Bernard.
MANDATORY EVACUATION in Order for Areas Near Brazos River in Fort Bend County - Fort Bend Herald: Free


BREAKING NEWS: More evacuations imminent as San Bernard, Brazos expected to flood | News | thefacts.com
Be glad Humble and the San Jacinto River isn't as bad as other areas.


https://twitter.com/KPRC2
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Old 08-27-2017, 10:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmaise View Post
Psychoma, has anyone figured out if the dam at Lake Houston can be over topped by too much rain? If it is over topped it looks to me like the whole dam would fail. Has anyone done a worst case for Houston if it did?
Only looking at Google Maps if something ever happened looks like would stay off to the east of Houston, but just a random glance at maps opinion. Looking at photos of Lake Houston dam looks like this type of dam has water normally flow over the top across it (don't know this type of dams design name). So it would be the type of dam where you wouldn't want water to go over the banks and then go around the dam which would cause the overtopping effects that are detrimental to dam integrity. Lake Conroe dam that feeds Lake Houston started an 8,120 cubic ft/second release early today to help lower that lake. Barker & Addicks on the W side of Houston are planning releases with Addick starting at 2aCDT tonight(early Monday) w other maybe 24hrs later, both feed into Buffalo Bayou. Those two dams will start flooding the neighborhoods behind them where its so full starting Monday even with the release (see here for links to maps and news confernce on release: abc13.com. Don't know what actions they took or not but dam owners should have taken steps to lower water levels before these predicted rains came..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sollaces View Post
.... Allison was a rain maker as is Harvey. Allison was a what . . . Tropical depression? It wasn't a hurricane. Harvey has the power of a cat 4 storm pulling in water from the Gulf and keeps rotating over land. ......
This argument is actually why there's ongoing debate on how to better classify hurricanes. Hurricane Categories are soley based on wind speed, yet dangers from hurricanes include tornadoes, flooding, surge, etc etc with water accounting for 75% of all deaths. And categories cover zero of those other effects (surge is higher the higher the cateogry but danger/height not reflected in category rating).
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Old 08-27-2017, 11:46 PM
 
Location: Big Island of Hawaii & HOT BuOYS Sailing Vessel
5,277 posts, read 2,803,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychoma View Post
Only looking at Google Maps if something ever happened looks like would stay off to the east of Houston, but just a random glance at maps opinion. Looking at photos of Lake Houston dam looks like this type of dam has water normally flow over the top across it (don't know this type of dams design name). So it would be the type of dam where you wouldn't want water to go over the banks and then go around the dam which would cause the overtopping effects that are detrimental to dam integrity. Lake Conroe dam that feeds Lake Houston started an 8,120 cubic ft/second release early today to help lower that lake. Barker & Addicks on the W side of Houston are planning releases with Addick starting at 2aCDT tonight(early Monday) w other maybe 24hrs later, both feed into Buffalo Bayou. Those two dams will start flooding the neighborhoods behind them where its so full starting Monday even with the release (see here for links to maps and news confernce on release: abc13.com. Don't know what actions they took or not but dam owners should have taken steps to lower water levels before these predicted rains came..........



This argument is actually why there's ongoing debate on how to better classify hurricanes. Hurricane Categories are soley based on wind speed, yet dangers from hurricanes include tornadoes, flooding, surge, etc etc with water accounting for 75% of all deaths. And categories cover zero of those other effects (surge is higher the higher the cateogry but danger/height not reflected in category rating).
Thanks for scoop. I think Conroe is not the problem.

I realize what I am talking about is extremely unnerving so let me first say this is all speculation.

This said I created a small model of incoming flows to Lake Houston.

Level is now 47.33 feet and all spill ways appear to be open.

There is the main spillway which is like 3160 feet long and is about 41 feet above sea level.

The dam overflows at 60 feet.

This means 3160*(60-41)=60,000 square feet of area to allow flow out at best.

There also are two gates 18*20.5 ft for another 738 ft2. Total available area for out flow=60,738 ft2.

At an average flow of 10ft/sec, total discharge would reach roughly 600,000 ft3/sec.

Okay let's look at maximum in flow.

The watershed feeding into Lake Houston is over 2828 square miles. All of it is saturated and most upstream reservoirs are full already. Conroe is specifically full and releasing.

Now suppose it continues to rain and in flows equal 1" per hour for each of the 2828 square miles.

2828*5280*5280/12/3600 = 1.8 million ft3/sec

A small average rainfall of 1/2" per hour is 900,000 ft3/sec and would also eventually cause a problem.

The reservoir has buffer capacity to handle surge flows. This means total levels must rise from current 47 ft to 60 ft to over top the dam.


The area of the reservoir is 10,160 acres. If we assume this is a fixed area, then the reservoir has room for 5.3 billion ft3 of water.

All that acts as a buffer.

Is it possible to know how much excess water is flowing into Lake Houston? Actually yes. We can look at the rate of rise.

If we look at most current data for today, 15 minutes ago the level was 47.33 ft. 2 hours 15 minutes ago it was 46.97. In a two hour period the lake rose 0.36 ft.

0.36 ft spread out of 10,160 acres is 146 million ft3.

This means 146 million more ft3 of water entered the lake than went over the spillway. Per hour this is about 70 million per hour.

At rate of rise 0.36 ft per hour doesn't mean the dam will over top in 13ft/0.36ft/hr 36 hours.

Two factors are involved. The higher the level goes the more the lake drains. On the other hand the more it rains the greater the inflow to the reservoir and the shorter the time.

Conclusion: It is entirely within mathmatical reason to anticipate the Lake Houston dam can be over topped.

Houston! We may have a problem.

To keep an eye on water level see:

https://waterdatafortexas.org/reserv...vidual/houston

You can also look at one of the river guages for the feed into the lake at this link. As of this post it stands at 60 ft. Before the rains started it was 42.5 ft


https://waterdata.usgs.gov/tx/nwis/u...ate=2017-08-27

PPS Level this past hour now 47.75 and rise if 0.42 ft/hour. Rain is winning.

Last edited by pbmaise; 08-28-2017 at 12:21 AM..
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Old 08-28-2017, 06:40 AM
 
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7aCDT/8EST: Harvey has reemerged into the Gulf of Mexico. Winds 40mph, moving SE 3mph, pressure 997mb. Persistent onshore winds will help storm surge of 1 to 3ft possible along the coast from Port Aransas to Morgan City, including Galveston Bay but main threat will by far be flooding rains.

Some restrengthening of Harvey is possible now that it's center is back over water but wind shear, lack of a better organized core, and the fact that it stirred up cooler waters (a storms fuel) when it first came through means it can't strengthen much at all from where it is now. The story and focus is, and should remain, just on rains/flood.

Good news....It'll start moving out this week!! But a slow start continuing to bring flooding rains onto the coast and spreading into parts of Louisiana more.




Some text from WPC to go with this next graphic: "AS THE CENTER OF HARVEY MOVES BACK OUT OVER THE GULF OF MEXICO...RENEWED CONVECTION WITH RAINFALL RATES OF 1-3 IN/HR MAY DEVELOP JUST EAST OF THE CIRCULATION CENTER WITH IMPACTS TO LOCATIONS WEST OF GALVESTON BAY TO NEAR ROUTE 71...INCLUDING THE HOUSTON METRO. THE TIME FRAME FOR THIS AREA OF NEW DEVELOPMENT APPEARS TO BE IN THE 15-18Z TIME FRAME."
So that New development of rain bands start time of 15-18z would be 10a-1pCDT.


Possible additional rain totals today thru Saturday:




Last edited by Psychoma; 08-28-2017 at 06:50 AM..
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Old 08-28-2017, 10:52 AM
 
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https://www.click2houston.com/weathe...ch-toward-gulf
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Old 08-28-2017, 11:48 AM
 
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Track is changing, storm impacting Beaumont and Louisiana.


A bit of humor:





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnZXgxDIahg
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