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Old 07-09-2011, 04:51 PM
 
335 posts, read 281,033 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEHMarten View Post
Well, as adamant as you've been that there will be ABSOLUTELY NO RACIAL PROFILING when it comes to the enforcement of this law, I don't think you've given an answer as to how the police will distinguish between an illegal immigrant who doesn't have ID and a US citizen who forgot his or her ID.
If an American citizen forgets his or her ID, the police can easily verify that American's ID by using the computer that most police cars carry today, or by calling in over the police radio.
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Old 07-09-2011, 04:57 PM
 
335 posts, read 281,033 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingVoltron View Post
And you can bet your ass there are some police officers out there who are salivating at the chance to bust some illegal immigrants will find a reason to stop "Hispanic looking" people so they can ask. And that, my dear, is pretty much the definition of racial profiling.
There always seems to be a few rogue cops in every city's police departments. But the vast majority of cops won't stop people based solely on what they look like.
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Old 07-09-2011, 06:06 PM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,383,737 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingVoltron View Post
You're kind of missing the point. Well more than kind of. What is the impetus for a police officer to determine whether or not he should ask you for your immigration papers? And if you know anything about police officers, they can pretty much always come up with a reason to stop you if they want to. And you can bet your ass there are some police officers out there who are salivating at the chance to bust some illegal immigrants will find a reason to stop "Hispanic looking" people so they can ask. And that, my dear, is pretty much the definition of racial profiling.

Sounds like you have an issue with police officers. Maybe that is the drum you should be beating.

I have been stopped on occasion but once I produce the neccesary paperwork that I'm required to carry I'm sent on my way. The detention is usually quite short. And although it may be annoying, it has been a part of life in the US for many years.

When a crime has been commited it is not unusual to come up on roadblocks while state patrol and other law enforcement question you etc. until the criminal has been found. I'm not sure why this is different. I'm not sure about your "hispanic" remark. Are you saying all illegals are Hispanic? That borders on racist except that Hispanic isn't a race.
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Old 07-09-2011, 06:06 PM
 
403 posts, read 280,796 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbartlebee View Post
There always seems to be a few rogue cops in every city's police departments. But the vast majority of cops won't stop people based solely on what they look like.
Sure, this is easy for you to just assert and say, "See, nothing to fear!" However, if you could put yourself in the shoes of a Hispanic person, or a person that just looks Hispanic for that matter, living in Georgia where a large group of people who have a penchant for making generalizations about the nationality of illegal immigrants and constantly "forget" to distinguish between the legal "Mexican" immigrants and the illegal ones when they are making derogatory generalizations about their breeding habits, intelligence, and propensity for criminal behavior, have just passed a law cracking down on ILLEGAL (no seriously, we are for real, we just don't want the illegal ones here. We're a nation of laws, after all! Their children? They'd have to go too, the offspring of rabbits can't be real citizens anyway...) immigrants you might just feel slightly unwelcome.
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Old 07-09-2011, 06:14 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEHMarten View Post
Yeah, I carry ID most of the time, too. But I have sometimes forgotten, and even though it's foolish, it's not against the law for me to go for a jog without my wallet. We specifically don't require citizens to carry around ID all the time. That's because our country is freer than, say, Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia.

But now, here's a law saying that the police must check the ID of someone they suspect is an illegal immigrant. How are the police going to know who to even ask for ID in the first place? Like, I mean, you say that the police will know that you two are citizens because you have IDs, but they won't know that until they've made you stop and produce it. Wouldn't you rather get on with your grocery shopping or jogging or bike ride without having to get stopped by a cop, produce your ID, wait around while he punches it into his computer, and then eventually get the all-clear? Do you want cops doing this to you every time one sees you?
I've been stopped and questioned by border patrol three different times and believe me, they can figure out if you're here legally or not just from some questions they ask.

Heck - someone really good could probably tell someone from Boston apart from someone from Alabama.
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Old 07-09-2011, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
Sure, this is easy for you to just assert and say, "See, nothing to fear!" However, if you could put yourself in the shoes of a Hispanic person, or a person that just looks Hispanic for that matter, living in Georgia where a large group of people who have a penchant for making generalizations about the nationality of illegal immigrants and constantly "forget" to distinguish between the legal "Mexican" immigrants and the illegal ones when they are making derogatory generalizations about their breeding habits, intelligence, and propensity for criminal behavior, have just passed a law cracking down on ILLEGAL (no seriously, we are for real, we just don't want the illegal ones here. We're a nation of laws, after all! Their children? They'd have to go too, the offspring of rabbits can't be real citizens anyway...) immigrants you might just feel slightly unwelcome.
Bottom line: Citizens and legal residents, regardless of race/ethnicity, WILL be able to prove their identities, as well as their right to be in this country, even if they forget their ID. Illegal aliens WILL NOT. It’s just that simple.

By the way, I have a son who “looks” Latino. Yet, he has never been stopped.
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Old 07-09-2011, 07:58 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Bottom line: Citizens and legal residents, regardless of race/ethnicity, WILL be able to prove their identities, as well as their right to be in this country, even if they forget their ID. Illegal aliens WILL NOT. It’s just that simple.

By the way, I have a son who “looks” Latino. Yet, he has never been stopped.
What I don't get is why the pro-illegals keep repeating that people are stopped "initially" because a cop thinks they might be an illegal. How many times do they have to be told that no one is stopped for that reason? They are only stopped for a traffic infraction or other violation of the law. Once I.D. is provided (which we all have to provided under that criteria) then and only then can the question arise about status in this country and only IF I.D. cannot be provided. Is there some kind of wooden block between their ears that they can't grasp that?
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Old 07-09-2011, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Tempe, Az
1,421 posts, read 1,238,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingVoltron View Post
You're kind of missing the point. Well more than kind of. What is the impetus for a police officer to determine whether or not he should ask you for your immigration papers? And if you know anything about police officers, they can pretty much always come up with a reason to stop you if they want to. And you can bet your ass there are some police officers out there who are salivating at the chance to bust some illegal immigrants will find a reason to stop "Hispanic looking" people so they can ask. And that, my dear, is pretty much the definition of racial profiling.
I aint worried. I have my Arizona DL on me at ALL times when outside.
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Old 07-10-2011, 11:27 AM
 
5,906 posts, read 6,354,513 times
Reputation: 5447
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEHMarten View Post
Well, as adamant as you've been that there will be ABSOLUTELY NO RACIAL PROFILING when it comes to the enforcement of this law, I don't think you've given an answer as to how the police will distinguish between an illegal immigrant who doesn't have ID and a US citizen who forgot his or her ID.
They have a new technology it's called a computer.

Al they have to do is enter the demographics of those stopped. No matter what state you're from, if you are stopped and being investigated for any crime the officer is not going to let you go until they can identify you. When someone does not have ID and the information they give does not come up in the dateases, it's usually because the person has something hide, such as a warrant, here illegally, etc.
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Old 07-10-2011, 11:31 AM
 
5,906 posts, read 6,354,513 times
Reputation: 5447
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEHMarten View Post
Yeah, I carry ID most of the time, too. But I have sometimes forgotten, and even though it's foolish, it's not against the law for me to go for a jog without my wallet. We specifically don't require citizens to carry around ID all the time. That's because our country is freer than, say, Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia.

But now, here's a law saying that the police must check the ID of someone they suspect is an illegal immigrant. How are the police going to know who to even ask for ID in the first place? Like, I mean, you say that the police will know that you two are citizens because you have IDs, but they won't know that until they've made you stop and produce it. Wouldn't you rather get on with your grocery shopping or jogging or bike ride without having to get stopped by a cop, produce your ID, wait around while he punches it into his computer, and then eventually get the all-clear? Do you want cops doing this to you every time one sees you?
You need to read the law. The police can only ask after they are investigating you for another offense.
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