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If you disagree with what I'm saying then who is right? Heritage Foundation or immigration policy center. I'm really dying to hear your response to this one.
So the Heritage policy center is unacceptable but an organization calling itself the Immigration Policy Center is just fine?
It's really very simple. If the people in question were net economic contributors Mexico would be begging for them to return. They aren't. Can you explain to us why? Why would Mexico be happy if millions of their most productive citizenry left?
So the Heritage policy center is unacceptable but an organization calling itself the Immigration Policy Center is just fine?
It's really very simple. If the people in question were net economic contributors Mexico would be begging for them to return. They aren't. Can you explain to us why? Why would Mexico be happy if millions of their most productive citizenry left?
What point is it you are trying to make?
It is reasonably clear those who immigrate illegally to the US are not doing well in Mexico and believe, factually actually, that they can do better in the US. I don't think Mexico has any objections to them coming back...nor reason to push it.
They well may be net contributors to the Mexican economy while there...but not very good at meeting their own needs. That is why they immigrate.
Isee nothing wrong with the Heritage analysis. It is simply superficial.
The return from the illegals is their contribution to the overall endeavor. Their employers sell at a lower price and more stuff because they use illegals. They make more profits. You have to factor that into the equation.
I think it reasonably clear that illegals over all break even or close. Anybody who finds a big swing either way is cooking the books.
It is reasonably clear those who immigrate illegally to the US are not doing well in Mexico and believe, factually actually, that they can do better in the US. I don't think Mexico has any objections to them coming back...nor reason to push it.
They well may be net contributors to the Mexican economy while there...but not very good at meeting their own needs. That is why they immigrate.
Mexican officials clearly don't want them back or they'd do everything they possible could to make that happen. If Mexico doesn't want them why should we? Do you really think the purpose of our immigration laws should be to make life easier for Mexico's lower socioeconomic class?
Obviously they trespass with the desire to make their own lives easier. So? Their selfishness is not in question nor is it frankly their most endearing quality let alone some sort of point in their favor. The question is why we should reward them for their misbehavior by granting them permission to skip the immigration lines and access the American welfare system.
The only answers I've seen are a) it would cost more to deport them b) they have out of wedlock children here we've kind enough to educate in Spanish and allow American citizenship c) it would somehow be racist to demand that Mexicans and other Latinos move back to Mexico and other Latino nations d) prices would rise.
None of those make sense. We can pass laws that will cause them to self deport. You should not be allowed to have a baby on American soil and get the right to ignore our immigration laws. Mexico's underclass is Mexico's problem to provide for not mine. Any minor reduction in prices would be more than offset by a reduction the provision of social services they and their offspring use.
They move here to better their lives. I understand that. What I don't understand is why I'm not allowed to tell them to go home when that decision actively makes mine worse.
Mexico's high school dropouts are not an economic net benefit to most Americans. They should not be given the right to stay here.
Mexican officials clearly don't want them back or they'd do everything they possible could to make that happen. If Mexico doesn't want them why should we? Do you really think the purpose of our immigration laws should be to make life easier for Mexico's lower socioeconomic class?
Obviously they trespass with the desire to make their own lives easier. So? Their selfishness is not in question nor is it frankly their most endearing quality let alone some sort of point in their favor. The question is why we should reward them for their misbehavior by granting them permission to skip the immigration lines and access the American welfare system.
The only answers I've seen are a) it would cost more to deport them b) they have out of wedlock children here we've kind enough to educate in Spanish and allow American citizenship c) it would somehow be racist to demand that Mexicans and other Latinos move back to Mexico and other Latino nations d) prices would rise.
None of those make sense. We can pass laws that will cause them to self deport. You should not be allowed to have a baby on American soil and get the right to ignore our immigration laws. Mexico's underclass is Mexico's problem to provide for not mine. Any minor reduction in prices would be more than offset by a reduction the provision of social services they and their offspring use.
They move here to better their lives. I understand that. What I don't understand is why I'm not allowed to tell them to go home when that decision actively makes mine worse.
Mexico's high school dropouts are not an economic net benefit to most Americans. They should not be given the right to stay here.
Well a). Combined with there is no corporate will to make anything else happen. As I published in another thread the vastly most popular thing is increase enforcement with a path to legalization.
What law do you think we could pass that would make them leave? Going to arrest and imprison all who don't? Where we going to put half a million people?
And I fully agree with you that we really don't need a few million Mexican High School dropouts. Unfortunately that is not the issue. We have them. And we need to figure out a way to avoid ending up with 15 or 20 million. Which is where we are headed.
What law do you think we could pass that would make them leave? Going to arrest and imprison all who don't? Where we going to put half a million people?
And I fully agree with you that we really don't need a few million Mexican High School dropouts. Unfortunately that is not the issue. We have them. And we need to figure out a way to avoid ending up with 15 or 20 million. Which is where we are headed.
Here's what we can do:
1) Require employers to use E-Verify.
2) Dramatically increase enforcement actions taken against employers.
3) Every time someone is arrested or stopped by the police, verify that they are legally in the country (I do NOT support random checks of "suspected" illegals). If they are not, they need to be deported.
4) Stop giving them driver's licenses and state ID cards.
5) Stop giving them any and all taxpayer-funded benefits, like welfare or in-state college tuition.
Is it surprising that a study done by an organization supporting enforcement would come out with these results? "Studies" done by biased sources are irrelevant in any situation.
Are pro-illegal organizations also biased? Something tells me you think they are not.
Sure has a 50% error rate or so and is totally useless against simple substitution strategies. So we prevent the dumber 20% getting jobs. They work off the books.
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2) Dramatically increase enforcement actions taken against employers.
Paid for how? Triple or Quadruple the staff? Paid for how? By who? Note that employers often fight back. So this is expensive stuff. Many lawyers going to court.
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3) Every time someone is arrested or stopped by the police, verify that they are legally in the country (I do NOT support random checks of "suspected" illegals). If they are not, they need to be deported.
I have no problem with arrested. But note that the ICE may not agree that an arrest without a significant conviction justifies deportation. Family, local ties, kids all gets into the act.
Stopped is generally unconstitutional. The cops do not have a right to check your citizenship status simply because they stop you.
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4) Stop giving them driver's licenses and state ID cards.
I think 47 out of 50 states do that. Note though that it is certain to lead to people driving without licenses and insurance.
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5) Stop giving them any and all taxpayer-funded benefits, like welfare or in-state college tuition.
In general illegals get no welfare. The American citizen children of illegals sometimes do get it. You suggest american kids should not get it?
Instate tuition is an interesting issue. Actually there is a federal law that prevents it. But CA beat that by giving it to children who had spent three years in CA high school. Are you really of the opinion that we should turn down perhaps some of our best and brightest because their parents violated a law or regulation.
Well a). Combined with there is no corporate will to make anything else happen. As I published in another thread the vastly most popular thing is increase enforcement with a path to legalization.
What law do you think we could pass that would make them leave? Going to arrest and imprison all who don't? Where we going to put half a million people?
And I fully agree with you that we really don't need a few million Mexican High School dropouts. Unfortunately that is not the issue. We have them. And we need to figure out a way to avoid ending up with 15 or 20 million. Which is where we are headed.
Americans don't want a. Poll after poll opposes amnesty for illegals. All that amnesty did last time was bring more of them here in hopes of another amnesty. You've given us no evidence that we should try it again. Alabama got them to leave. This is not under dispute. There's no reason the rest of the nation can't do so as well.
If you really don't want 15 or 20 million more Mexican high school dropouts the last thing you should do is give those high school already here permission to stay. Once word gets out that amnesty is on the table millions more will move to America. That's the last thing we need.
The answer is increased law enforcement, the proper interpretation of the constitution on citizenship, huge fines for their employers and confiscation of their wages. Other nations enforce their borders to protect their citizens. There's no reason we can't do that as well.
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I'm really dying to hear your response to this one.
