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Old 11-20-2014, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Great Falls, VA
771 posts, read 1,153,717 times
Reputation: 1285

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What bothers me the most about the executive order the President is about to issue today is not the fact that many illegal immigrants are going to get work permits. I understand this is controversial for many, and I'm personally strongly against this executive order, but these people are already here for better or for worse, and they will unavoidably be legalized at some point or another. The part that bothers me the most is this:

The President is said to favor changes that would expand opportunities for legal immigrants who have high-tech backgrounds and increase the number of high-skilled immigrants allowed to work in the country.


This is the main reason I hated the bipartisan immigration bill that the Senate passed earlier this year and which (luckily) the House shot down.

No immigration bill, executive order or any other legal resource that increases the number of legal immigrants allowed in the country is going to be complete if it doesn't address the biggest issue of our existing legal immigration system: Indian body shops. I'm talking about companies like Cognizant, Infosys, Tata and others that have been abusing the H1B program since its inception.

More than 50% of the H1B and green card petitions are made by these companies. All they do is flood the market with Indian consultants who are then placed as contractors in American companies. They are essentially flooding the IT market with cheap labor.

The H1B program was never meant to support this model. This is why in 2010 USCIS issued the following memo, which clearly defines "what constitutes a valid employer-employee relationship to qualify for the H-1B ‘specialty occupation’ classification":

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/f...Memo010810.pdf

Most of these companies circumvent this. There is usually not a valid employer-employee relationship as defined by USCIS, they make their employees pay for several immigration expenses, they don't pay bench time, among dozens of other violations of the program.

I know this because I work in the IT industry. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand the need to bring in high-skilled labor, but the H1B program has been completely distorted. It was meant to help American companies bring in high-skilled labor that's in demand in the United States. But it's currently used by Indian body shops to do business in the United States by flooding our IT market with their consultants, which are always cheaper than hiring permanent employees (whether they are US citizens or not).

I don't even know what the solution for something like this is, but maybe a start would be to ensure that priority is given to immigrants that are being hired directly by the company where they will be working.

Simply increasing the number of immigrants allowed into the country across the board, without completely revamping the H1B program, will do nothing other than flood our market with even more Indian contractors, depress wages across the IT industry and discourage Americans from getting into the IT field (which will cause companies to want to bring even more Indian contractors).

Anyway, I'm sorry for the long rant, but this frustrates me to no end.
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Old 11-20-2014, 06:59 AM
 
Location: DFW - Coppell / Las Colinas
29,920 posts, read 34,517,946 times
Reputation: 35917
I helped a guy with Citi Group buy a home years ago.
He said he could import an Indian at half the price it costs him to hire an American kid fresh out of college.

They say they can't hire enough Americans. What they mean is they can't hire enough Americans at a cheap wage.
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Old 11-20-2014, 08:00 AM
 
3,533 posts, read 2,170,235 times
Reputation: 1886
There was a CD thread over at Employment several months ago. HP ran ads for the Bay area requiring a Masters in Computer Science, paying minimum wage. Numerous Americans still applied and were interviewed, all were told at the interview that Americans would not be hired. HP then got 10000 H1-B visas to fill the same slots. The brainchild behind this: Meg Whittman, former CA Republican Governor candidate, and now HP CEO. And people wonder why Brown won.
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Old 11-20-2014, 08:48 AM
 
Location: N Atlanta
4,597 posts, read 3,219,541 times
Reputation: 2310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesky View Post
What bothers me the most about the executive order the President is about to issue today is not the fact that many illegal immigrants are going to get work permits. I understand this is controversial for many, and I'm personally strongly against this executive order, but these people are already here for better or for worse, and they will unavoidably be legalized at some point or another. The part that bothers me the most is this:

The President is said to favor changes that would expand opportunities for legal immigrants who have high-tech backgrounds and increase the number of high-skilled immigrants allowed to work in the country.


This is the main reason I hated the bipartisan immigration bill that the Senate passed earlier this year and which (luckily) the House shot down.

No immigration bill, executive order or any other legal resource that increases the number of legal immigrants allowed in the country is going to be complete if it doesn't address the biggest issue of our existing legal immigration system: Indian body shops. I'm talking about companies like Cognizant, Infosys, Tata and others that have been abusing the H1B program since its inception.

More than 50% of the H1B and green card petitions are made by these companies. All they do is flood the market with Indian consultants who are then placed as contractors in American companies. They are essentially flooding the IT market with cheap labor.

The H1B program was never meant to support this model. This is why in 2010 USCIS issued the following memo, which clearly defines "what constitutes a valid employer-employee relationship to qualify for the H-1B ‘specialty occupation’ classification":

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/f...Memo010810.pdf

Most of these companies circumvent this. There is usually not a valid employer-employee relationship as defined by USCIS, they make their employees pay for several immigration expenses, they don't pay bench time, among dozens of other violations of the program.

I know this because I work in the IT industry. Don't get me wrong, I fully understand the need to bring in high-skilled labor, but the H1B program has been completely distorted. It was meant to help American companies bring in high-skilled labor that's in demand in the United States. But it's currently used by Indian body shops to do business in the United States by flooding our IT market with their consultants, which are always cheaper than hiring permanent employees (whether they are US citizens or not).

I don't even know what the solution for something like this is, but maybe a start would be to ensure that priority is given to immigrants that are being hired directly by the company where they will be working.

Simply increasing the number of immigrants allowed into the country across the board, without completely revamping the H1B program, will do nothing other than flood our market with even more Indian contractors, depress wages across the IT industry and discourage Americans from getting into the IT field (which will cause companies to want to bring even more Indian contractors).

Anyway, I'm sorry for the long rant, but this frustrates me to no end.
Great post and full of truths. But as long as Emperor Obama is in charge and as long as the companies you mention above flood the Dems with campaign money and contributions, you can forget about them redoing or better yet, dismantling the nightmare that is the H-1B program. There is no IT aptitude test required for an H-1B visa and thousands of unqualified "consultants" come over and work for peanuts, live in silo communities, and send their earnings back home to India. That's not to say that some H-1B visa workers are good as there are some who can run circles around their American counterparts. But there are many more who have fraudulently obtained positions by either having someone else take the technical phone interview, fabricating experience on a resume, or coming in to a firm on a blanket contract where the Indian firm has control over who gets placed.
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Old 11-20-2014, 09:15 AM
 
Location: North Texas
23,599 posts, read 31,135,299 times
Reputation: 26656
I've been in IT for 16 years. The Indian H1-Bs have taken over the industry, at least around here.

Case in point, our entire division (which is about 60% Indian) sent out an invite for a Thanksgiving potluck tomorrow.

The menu is nothing but Indian food. I don't recall samosas, vegetable biryani, or gulab jamun being traditional Thanksgiving dishes. There's not even any pumpkin or apple pie on the menu. I'll be skipping that one. I really don't like Indian food at all.
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Old 11-20-2014, 09:29 AM
 
Location: N Atlanta
4,597 posts, read 3,219,541 times
Reputation: 2310
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
I've been in IT for 16 years. The Indian H1-Bs have taken over the industry, at least around here.

Case in point, our entire division (which is about 60% Indian) sent out an invite for a Thanksgiving potluck tomorrow.

The menu is nothing but Indian food. I don't recall samosas, vegetable biryani, or gulab jamun being traditional Thanksgiving dishes. There's not even any pumpkin or apple pie on the menu. I'll be skipping that one. I really don't like Indian food at all.
Not just where you are ... they dominate the Atlanta market as well and I'm sure there are many others being taken over as we sit here.

The sad part is that our chief executive thinks we need more H-1Bs ... maybe in a few years, we can all celebrate Indian holidays instead of ours and fly the Indian flag instead of the stars and stripes.

As long as someone's palm is getting greased in DC, the influx of "stellar" consulting help will continue.
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Old 11-20-2014, 09:41 AM
 
62,353 posts, read 27,748,078 times
Reputation: 7854
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftee View Post
Great post and full of truths. But as long as Emperor Obama is in charge and as long as the companies you mention above flood the Dems with campaign money and contributions, you can forget about them redoing or better yet, dismantling the nightmare that is the H-1B program.
Interesting point. The tech corps most definitely lean Democrat.
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Old 11-20-2014, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Great Falls, VA
771 posts, read 1,153,717 times
Reputation: 1285
To be honest, I don't think this is an issue that is exclusive of the Democratic party. Just look at the bipartisan bill that the Senate passed last year. Furthermore, it was rumored that the bill would pass the House too if a vote had been allowed. This is one of the few issues where I agree with the more conservative tea party. And just to be clear, I'm not anti-immigration, but I do believe the H1B program has been distorted to such a point that it needs to be eliminated (for the reasons mentioned in my original post) and replaced for something else.

But in general, it seems to me that both Democrats and Republicans (except for the most conservative wing of the party) are in favor of increasing the yearly H1B quota. Which scares me. Of all the things that should have bipartisan support, this one isn't it for goodness' sake.
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Old 11-20-2014, 10:35 AM
 
Location: N Atlanta
4,597 posts, read 3,219,541 times
Reputation: 2310
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
I've been in IT for 16 years. The Indian H1-Bs have taken over the industry, at least around here.

Case in point, our entire division (which is about 60% Indian) sent out an invite for a Thanksgiving potluck tomorrow.

The menu is nothing but Indian food. I don't recall samosas, vegetable biryani, or gulab jamun being traditional Thanksgiving dishes. There's not even any pumpkin or apple pie on the menu. I'll be skipping that one. I really don't like Indian food at all.
BigD - I would complain to management, but they're probably Indian as well. If no traditional American Thanksgiving food is served, I would demand they stop calling it a Thanksgiving potluck.
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Old 11-20-2014, 11:22 AM
 
Location: USA
18,535 posts, read 13,674,466 times
Reputation: 12125
Hey, just like the guys at the car wash or the construction site, IT people can be replaced by foreigners. Ultimately, the President and current Administration bears the largest responsibity, with both parties right behind. Maybe the Tea party people are right
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