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rlchurch,it comforts me to know that what you believe belongs to a very small fraction of citizens. And it seems those folks got their U.S. history out of a Howard Zinn textbook.
Now there you go. You get stuffed making an argument that you can't prevail in and you violate the TOS with a personal attack. You also open yourself up to another embarrassment if I make you back up your claim to superior academic credentials.
People have been employing "undocumented worker" since before there were documents. :
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I've known, talked with, worked with, partied with, and eaten with illegal immigrants for decades now. I have a number of "ex-illegals" in my family, and a couple of them whom I suspect still ARE. They're all fine people.
But using the illegal immigration of 20, 30, or 80 years ago to make a case that it should go on today and into the indefinite future is absurd. The illegals who came 40 years ago no more justify those who are arriving today, than the outhouses, horse-drawn wagons, and telegrams so comon in the past could be used to illustrate today's sanitation, transportation, and communication situation. We used outdoor plumbing "back then", and it was "OK".....we NO LONGER use it, and it's NO LONGER OK.
Beyond any OTHER arguments, someone recently posted the VERY astute point that, while we Americans CONSTANTLY (and rightfully) cajole, berate, and 'push' our teenagers to 'STAY IN SCHOOL'...(because without at LEAST a 2-year college degree, they have virtually NO CHANCE of 'making it' into any kind of successful life), at the same time, we "convince" ourselves that we need a never-ending 'stream', today and in the future, of poorly-educated folks who not ONLY don't have a High-School Diploma, a good number can't even speak the 'local' language...and when these newcomers can't 'make it', they get resentful, and WE feel "GUILTY". It makes no sense at all. We don't need High-School Dropouts, and we don't need more and more unskilled "help", no matter WHERE they're from. This is no longer a society of manual labor and heavy industry...it's a high-tech society.
There's a big difference between "Needing" new people, and "TRYING to find a place for them"....We've "found a place" for some 15 to 20 Million people, but it can't go on this way.
Finally, rlchurch, "when the job is finished, they want to go HOME?" Please...THAT one is beyond comment. What do we call the ones who are "going home" by the millions.."Secos"?...."illegal EMigrants"...THAT's the best one I've read in a LONG time...
But using the illegal immigration of 20, 30, or 80 years ago to make a case that it should go on today and into the indefinite future is absurd. The illegals who came 40 years ago no more justify those who are arriving today, than the outhouses, horse-drawn wagons, and telegrams so comon in the past could be used to illustrate today's sanitation, transportation, and communication situation. We used outdoor plumbing "back then", and it was "OK".....we NO LONGER use it, and it's NO LONGER OK.
In many areas we don't really have a choice. We are economically intertwined in much of our agriculture and agricultural related businesses. If you want American grown food on your table, it's going to be picked and processed by foreign workers. That just reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal
Beyond any OTHER arguments, someone recently posted the VERY astute point that, while we Americans CONSTANTLY (and rightfully) cajole, berate, and 'push' our teenagers to 'STAY IN SCHOOL'...(because without at LEAST a 2-year college degree, they have virtually NO CHANCE of 'making it' into any kind of successful life), at the same time, we "convince" ourselves that we need a never-ending 'stream', today and in the future, of poorly-educated folks who not ONLY don't have a High-School Diploma, a good number can't even speak the 'local' language...and when these newcomers can't 'make it', they get resentful, and WE feel "GUILTY". It makes no sense at all. We don't need High-School Dropouts, and we don't need more and more unskilled "help", no matter WHERE they're from. This is no longer a society of manual labor and heavy industry...it's a high-tech society.
We still have many relatively low skilled jobs. Who does those?
I don't care if people "speak the local language." First generation immigrants almost never have. There a many places in this country where English has never been the primary language. We need to get over this ego trip we are on about English.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal
There's a big difference between "Needing" new people, and "TRYING to find a place for them"....We've "found a place" for some 15 to 20 Million people, but it can't go on this way.
Last time I checked there wasn't a placement office for undocumented workers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal
Finally, rlchurch, "when the job is finished, they want to go HOME?" Please...THAT one is beyond comment. What do we call the ones who are "going home" by the millions.."Secos"?...."illegal EMigrants"...THAT's the best one I've read in a LONG time...
That one of the really silly things we've done with this border fence. Before we made it hard to cross over, many of the workers went home at the end of the season. Now they have to stay because its harder to cross.
In many areas we don't really have a choice. We are economically intertwined in much of our agriculture and agricultural related businesses. If you want American grown food on your table, it's going to be picked and processed by foreign workers. That just reality.
We still have many relatively low skilled jobs. Who does those?
I don't care if people "speak the local language." First generation immigrants almost never have. There a many places in this country where English has never been the primary language. We need to get over this ego trip we are on about English.
Last time I checked there wasn't a placement office for undocumented workers.
That one of the really silly things we've done with this border fence. Before we made it hard to cross over, many of the workers went home at the end of the season. Now they have to stay because its harder to cross.
Many of your sentiments are decades out of date. At one time, we DID have a program whereby people really COULD "come here. work, get paid, and go home". It was sanctioned by both the US and Mexican governments. It was known as the "Bracero Program". For a number of reasons, it's no longer in vogue...one reason, I suspect, is that people don't REALLY want to go home...they just SAY that.
But I'll give you an "A" for good intentions... If you can get millions of people to agree that "I want to come to the US..I want to work where I'm needed, and where no Americans will apply...and I'll understand this is a program to provide workers for America, and gives me absolutely no "claim" on America beyond the wages due me"...then, I'm on your side. No one could argue with that.
Unfortunately, most of today's illegals apparently don't agree with your plan. They want to come here, but they don't want to go home. They not only want to work, they want to be given full citizenship. So far, they don't have it...but when, and if, they DO get full citizenship, I have serious doubts they'll want to work....at least not for the wages, and under the conditions, which "we" have been accustomed to their accepting. No, I have a feeling that most contemporary illegals have a lot bigger "plan" for themselves than you give them credit for. "Come here, be satisfied with 'minimum wage', get 'paid off' and go home"? Sorry, rlchurch, but I think somebody's been pulling your leg. You do sound like a nice guy, though.
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