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you havent been around long enough. trust me, there ARE posters that believe we should completely halt immigration to the US.
Back on 12-30-09, I posed the question "What would be the consequences of stopping ALL immigration into the US" (or words to that effect) "for a few years, or forever"? And would that mean we as a society were doing something 'bad'..or not?
It was an attempt on my part to get a discussion going..but I don't recall much comment, either for or against such an idea. I'm still not sure why we should be committed, as a society, to accept high levels of immigration on and on into the indefinite future. I'd still like to hear anyone's opinions on why we "should" allow this, or why we should not.
Do we seek out immigrants to fill up empty land? Do we seek them out because they offer us something we can't provide for ourselves? Do we allow immigration because we "owe" that favor to the world, and because 200 years ago, we "said" we would? Do we allow immigration because it's our 'moral duty'? Should we concentrate on rich, educated immigrants, or poor, uneducated ones?
Now here's the REAL controversial 'blockbuster'....If, indeed, it's decided we "need" immigrants, does that then mean we should get to choose who they are...or should it be simply 'first come, first served'?
NONE of this directly addresses the matter of illegals...but I can see it getting really "hot" on the forum when these points are discussed...if they ever are.
It would be an interesting side-issue, if enough people would comment.
"Do we seek out immigrants to fill up empty land? Do we seek them out because they offer us something we can't provide for ourselves? Do we allow immigration because we "owe" that favor to the world, and because 200 years ago, we "said" we would? Do we allow immigration because it's our 'moral duty'? Should we concentrate on rich, educated immigrants, or poor, uneducated ones?
Now here's the REAL controversial 'blockbuster'....If, indeed, it's decided we "need" immigrants, does that then mean we should get to choose who they are...or should it be simply 'first come, first served'?
"
I'll tackle this one.
We have no empty ariable land. We have reached our carrying capacity.
We are quite able to provide for ourselves as Americans for the most part.
We don't owe any outsiders anything including the right to move here at will.
200 years ago we were a different country in many ways. Times have changed and so have our needs.
If we find we need immigrant labor I think fair quotas from many backgrounds is what is fair and not favoring one particular group. Of course those from known terrorist countries would likely be excluded.
We have no moral obligation to the world to take in their poor citizens.
Our immigration policies should be based on what our labor needs are. In some cases we may need educated and trained immigrants and in some cases the less educated. Crop picking comes to mind but that can be seasonal and temporary.
I think that population growth should be taken into account in our immigration policies also.
We have no empty ariable land. We have reached our carrying capacity.
Not true.
We are quite able to provide for ourselves as Americans for the most part.
True.
We don't owe any outsiders anything including the right to move here at will.
We owe whoever that moves here basic rights.
200 years ago we were a different country in many ways. Times have changed and so have our needs.
Okay...so why do you use 200 year old arguments (Malthusian theory)? Regardless of the irony, you also lack the basic desire of modern human rights for all in our borders.
If we find we need immigrant labor I think fair quotas from many backgrounds is what is fair and not favoring one particular group. Of course those from known terrorist countries would likely be excluded.
We have no quotas in that sense. Also, quotas in this sense would disenfranchise those who seek coming here the most. It's not favoring anyone. Also, a person from Yemen or any "terrorist" country should be able to immigrate to our nation...the vast majority of people from these places are not terrorists.
We have no moral obligation to the world to take in their poor citizens.
We should at least help the world's poor. We can't simply take and take.
We should, again, rethink our aid and economic strategies so that we close the global wealth gap.
Our immigration policies should be based on what our labor needs are. In some cases we may need educated and trained immigrants and in some cases the less educated. Crop picking comes to mind but that can be seasonal and temporary.
This implies that the job market can't accomodate new growth. Increased population typically means more demand for items. I'm not for rampant immigration, but we should also realize that there is a moral component to this.
I think that population growth should be taken into account in our immigration policies also.
Population growth does take into account immigration. Do you mean immigration policies should take into account population growth?
Wow, I have heard weird arguments for massively increasing our population growth but this is the weirdest one yet. We already have every ethnic food available in this country. So let's see, we should increase our population growth even though it means waiting a year to see a doctor, water and food rationing, high unemployment, more crowded highways, schools, hospitals and jails (the list of negatives goes on and on) just so we don't miss out on some more ethnic food? Oh and don't forget we will have to learn a dozen languages so we can converse with each other. Oh Lord!
1. I was sort of joking about the ethnic food. But I would like some growth in my city.
2. Along with increases in population come more doctors, more jobs, more schools, more hospitals, and more jails.
3. Who said all the growth would be from immigrants?
For the people complaining about overpopulation, please do yourself a favor and move to North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, Iowa, Nebraska, Utah, Alaska or Idaho. Otherwise, we'd happily accept you in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
1. I was sort of joking about the ethnic food. But I would like some growth in my city.
2. Along with increases in population come more doctors, more jobs, more schools, more hospitals, and more jails.
3. Who said all the growth would be from immigrants?
4. I don't see food rationing happening in China.
I'll address point #2. At the present time through illegal immigration we are importing milions of unskilled and uneducated not a good formula to produce more doctors and highly skilled Americans. They only add to the burden of caring for them. More jobs? If that were so, then why do we have such unemployment now? Hint...too many people, not enough jobs.
For the people complaining about overpopulation, please do yourself a favor and move to North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, Iowa, Nebraska, Utah, Alaska or Idaho. Otherwise, we'd happily accept you in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
It is about our "overall" population numbers and our lack of resources to sustain them. Americans shouldn't have to move to where there are no jobs or away from their families to a place they don't want to live just to accomodate a burgeoning population growth due to massive illegal immigration. Americans are reproducing at replacement levels. Not true of the foreign born.
Back on 12-30-09, I posed the question "What would be the consequences of stopping ALL immigration into the US" (or words to that effect) "for a few years, or forever"? And would that mean we as a society were doing something 'bad'..or not?
It was an attempt on my part to get a discussion going..but I don't recall much comment, either for or against such an idea. I'm still not sure why we should be committed, as a society, to accept high levels of immigration on and on into the indefinite future. I'd still like to hear anyone's opinions on why we "should" allow this, or why we should not.
Do we seek out immigrants to fill up empty land? Do we seek them out because they offer us something we can't provide for ourselves? Do we allow immigration because we "owe" that favor to the world, and because 200 years ago, we "said" we would? Do we allow immigration because it's our 'moral duty'? Should we concentrate on rich, educated immigrants, or poor, uneducated ones?
Now here's the REAL controversial 'blockbuster'....If, indeed, it's decided we "need" immigrants, does that then mean we should get to choose who they are...or should it be simply 'first come, first served'?
NONE of this directly addresses the matter of illegals...but I can see it getting really "hot" on the forum when these points are discussed...if they ever are.
It would be an interesting side-issue, if enough people would comment.
Massive illegal immigration has created an unsustainable “immigrant” growth in this country. Not only are we accepting 1 million legal immigrants annually, we have had hundreds of thousands illegally entering our country on an annual basis for the past 20 years. This problem is exacerbated by the phenomenal birth rate among illegal aliens, and their reliance on taxpayers for their support.
Moreover, consider the number of overcrowded schools and the additional burden on taxpayers to provide ESL classes and breakfast/lunch programs for the US-born children, as well as the millions of children brought to this country illegally. Additionally, we have an unprecedented number of hospital closures, and hospitals paying millions of dollars for extended care, never to be reimbursed. Not to mention, the hundreds of thousands in legal fees incurred defending their position to discontinue treatment. Let’s not forget the astronomical costs associated with the apprehension and detainment of illegal aliens, and the billions taxpayers are paying for the prosecution and incarceration of illegal alien felons. No nation could sustain this; in particular, during a period of recession and record unemployment. Now, they arrogantly feel entitled to tax-funded in-state tuition for their children, as if we haven’t already been more than generous by funding their K-12 education.
Pro-illegals argue that if we only legalize these millions of illegal aliens, our economy will benefit. Nothing could be further from the truth. Given that the vast majority of illegal aliens are uneducated and unskilled Mexican peasants, their earnings potential will remain at the lower spectrum. Legalization will certainly not improve their marketability; nor will it magically transform them into educated members of society. Thus, there would be little, if any, increase in our tax base. However, there WOULD be an immediate increase in our welfare rolls. Factor in family reunification. If amnestied, they will sponsor millions of their family members, many whom will receive SSI benefits, which they have not funded. What benefit will these “immigrants” serve to our country?
Immigration should first benefit the host country; and there is no benefit to be derived from having millions of uneducated low-wage earners. If anything, we need educated immigrants who can help our country progress and compete in this global economy. We need scientists, engineers, doctors, nurses, etc; not illiterate peasants in need of government assistance for themselves and their reunified families.
We have absolutely no obligation to be the safety valve for Mexico, or any other country. As many have mentioned, our needs vastly differ from 100 years ago. We no longer need warm bodies to “build” this country. Rather, we need intelligence and ingenuity.
It is time for Mexico to stop relying on the U.S. to provide for its citizens. We are not responsible for their culture of corruption, or the fact that their oligarchy prefers to pimp them to the U.S. in return for billions in remittances. We need a moratorium on immigration until we resolve our current illegal immigration crisis. Otherwise, we are destined to fail as a nation, and will sink into the abyss of third-world status. Our enemies revel at the thought.
It is about our "overall" population numbers and our lack of resources to sustain them. Americans shouldn't have to move to where there are no jobs or away from their families to a place they don't want to live just to accomodate a burgeoning population growth due to massive illegal immigration. Americans are reproducing at replacement levels. Not true of the foreign born.
There are millions of people living in densely populated parts of the country who are living just fine. They aren't in any kind of crisis or anything. It's just paranoid nuts like you who make a big deal about it, which is why I tell you to move to North Dakota where you can literally be the only one living in a 5 miles radius out in the woods or a field somewhere and have plenty of resources to create a small farm for yourself, fish in a creek, and live your happy isolated life away from all of those damned life ruining world ending illegals.
There are millions of people living in densely populated parts of the country who are living just fine. They aren't in any kind of crisis or anything. It's just paranoid nuts like you who make a big deal about it, which is why I tell you to move to North Dakota where you can literally be the only one living in a 5 miles radius out in the woods or a field somewhere and have plenty of resources to create a small farm for yourself, fish in a creek, and live your happy isolated life away from all of those damned life ruining world ending illegals.
So there are no water or energy shortages in this country? There is no shortage of doctors, nurses, teachers? I am not a paranoid nut. I keep informed and do research. Doesn't appear that you do though. You have the usual tunnel vision for our country as most far lefties do. We may not be at a crisis just yet but we will be in the future if this massive population growth through illegal immigration is allowed to continue.
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