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Just a quick note to let everyone know that I requested to have my first post removed. I like and respect everyone on this board too much to see it invaded by Indymedia socialist goons and their ilk, NOT because I fear anything she or her leftist rag can do to me. Indymedia has a bad habit of posting lies; I know, I've been the subject of several, so if she really wants to start mouthing noise about a libel suit, well let's just say that I'd have plenty of ammo to retaliate with. But because I enjoy the priviledge of posting on this forum, I asked Yac to remove my post so that Leslie no longer feels the need to hang around, that is, unless she's looking for serious debate--rather than her usual pro-illegal alien, anti-everybody else blather.
I just noticed there was a page 2 to this thread, so I just found your overture. Yes, I'd be happy to debate, with a few rules. Let's decide on a topic: "The Minuteman movement is over" perhaps, or "Only convicted felons should be deported." Or maybe you have a topic in mind. I don't want to cover the entire gamat of undocumented migration.
Secondly, I need to limit the number of rounds we go. I can't tie myself to interminable back-and-forths. I will send no more than 10 responses total, to you or anyone else who chimes in. That will leave your side with the last word, but so be it.
And third, no personal attacks, inquiries, or references. Except one, if you don't mind: how do you pronounce "Kele"? Is it "Kee-ly" or "Kel-lee" or something else?
Deleting your post is probably a good move, legally speaking, for you, drumsme7, and this site.
L.A. Indymedia can be a real eye-opener for Los Angelenos. I also suggest people read Counterpunch, Countercurrents, Aztlan Electronic News, Dissident Voice, the San Francisco Bayview, OpEd News--other good sites, well worth checking out, all of which have published my writing. There are others, too, (don't mean to exclude anyone) and I recommend them all.
In my opinion Iradford, your writings are fiction and no good sense, I think it good to stay away from any sites you recommend. Sue me and see how far you will get.
Leslie - I'd love to have a serious debate. However, judging from your writings I would venture to say that you and I could never have a serious conversation regarding illegal immigration. You have a tendency, when things get a bit dicey, to pull the racist card and as any student of rhetoric knows, name-calling will effectively end any and all intelligent discourse at that point.
Then again, as your buddies over at Indymedia so eloquently pointed out, I am in the midst of moving to Wyoming to, oh how did they put it? Oh yes, to "join my klan brothers and sisters," (although I'm actually moving to begin working on my Archeology M.A., but hey, y'all never let the truth stand in the way of a good story.)
Perhaps when I get settled in at the U of W, I'll have time to resume these little tete a tetes.
Oh and as a side note? I seem to recall that when America spoke, the Senate had to listen. I wouldn't count the Minutemen out just yet. Apparently they speak for quite a few more citizens than you folks thought. In the meantime, keep up the marches for illegal alien entitlement of American Citizen Civil Rights. America is watching.
In my opinion Iradford, your writings are fiction and no good sense, I think it good to stay away from any sites you recommend. Sue me and see how far you will get.
Is this the topic of debate? Should this count as the first of my ten posts on immigration? I'll happily discuss either the "fact vs. fiction" of my writing (plz specify which articles we're talking about) or the merits of the sites I recommended above, but I don't see how either of these will get any of us much of anywhere in this discussion.
btw, got your private message and tried to write back, but you don't allow pms. So here's my response:
Faith,
Many of us are losing everything. When those who are take sides against each other, we all lose.
And, fyi, you're the first person to call me young in decades, except for my chiropractor, who thinks he's being "positive attitude" with me.
Your note came in as I was writing to Faith. Sorry to hear the debate is off. Maybe "racism in the minuteman movement" should be the topic. But what with moving and all, I can see where it could be a less-than-ideal time. I would like to pick this up when you're settled, but let me know when that is at my regular email box. You have the address, yes? I don't think I'll be checking in here often.
Let me set up one more rule for both of us if we resume this: neither of us speak for any group. You don't speak for the minutemen or SOS; I don't speak for Indymedia or anyone else. Our ideas, our viewpoints, our research.
As to the Senate, I can assure you that many people who support migrants were at least as unhappy with the Senate's bill as your side was and worked against the border wall, the Bracero program, and the "register with ICE and we'll let you know which 1 in 10 get to stay" proposal. You might have noticed that there was no weeping in the streets or gnashing of teeth when it failed.
Have fun in Wyoming, and say Hi to my cousins there.
I checked out lradford's sites and was horrified at the anti-American stance presented as op-ed. No, Americans who live alongside the mean, xenophobic and greedy illegals here in L.A. have a different view than ivory tower theorists. I shall be voting with my feet as well. La Raza's victory will be a megopolis of law-breakers who seem proud to have nothing in common with the rest of the United States, a nation that promotes "E Pluribus Unum" as its very motto. Also, a professional writer ought not refer to "migrants" when they mean criminal law-breakers intent on permanent residency in another country.
All I have to say is that, once our Government gets their heads back in the game and starts to enforce our borders with our troops instead of sending them to die in some country that none of us give a rats butt about, they should enforce our border better and give our border patrol officers the right to use force.Our military should be deployed in these United States using random checkpoints and maybe even going door to door, find every illegal and send their butts back home.
Also anyone that is a legal immigrant that stands for illegals rights should also be shown the way across the border and never allowed back.We have to make a stand and protect the rights and way of life that our troops and founding fathers fought so hard to supply us with.
I want my country back and the way of life that i grew up with, i am sick and tired of these illegals coming here and destroying our country,soon this country will be no better than mexico.
If anyone can give me info on any organizations like the minutemen that are fighting for this country then please give me websites.
Ive had it with this garbage that is crossing our border and i will stand up for the United States with whatever it takes and i think we need to make a stand soon.
Stand up America and drive these illegals home if our government wont.
All I have to say is that, once our Government gets their heads back in the game and starts to enforce our borders with our troops instead of sending them to die in some country that none of us give a rats butt about, they should enforce our border better and give our border patrol officers the right to use force.Our military should be deployed in these United States using random checkpoints and maybe even going door to door, find every illegal and send their butts back home.
Also anyone that is a legal immigrant that stands for illegals rights should also be shown the way across the border and never allowed back.We have to make a stand and protect the rights and way of life that our troops and founding fathers fought so hard to supply us with.
I want my country back and the way of life that i grew up with, i am sick and tired of these illegals coming here and destroying our country,soon this country will be no better than mexico.
If anyone can give me info on any organizations like the minutemen that are fighting for this country then please give me websites.
Ive had it with this garbage that is crossing our border and i will stand up for the United States with whatever it takes and i think we need to make a stand soon.
Stand up America and drive these illegals home if our government wont.
I would be behind that too! Our troops are needed at the southern border.
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Just found this
