"Religious Freedom Bill" - Indiana boycott begins (Indianapolis: move, manufacturing)

[Wardendresden]

Originally Posted by Toxic Toast

A witch hunt based on geography? The level of stupid on display over this astounds me. It is too bad.

That was post you referred to was sarcasm. But don't underestimate the power of deviant gods to come up with another reason to declare some people persona non grata in their religious scheme. And I don't mind it if it remains in the religious scheme, it's when it reaches into commerce that it violates the document by which everyone in this nation should be bound first and foremost--the Constitution of the United States.

As several posters have pointed out, once you let the "my providing you commercial service is a violation of my religious freedom" nonsense to take root, it is only a matter of time before guns and bullets are used to clarify what "my" religious freedom really means.

[Shane73]

Originally Posted by Toxic Toast

A witch hunt based on geography? The level of stupid on display over this astounds me. It is too bad.

Right or wrong, how did the governor and all the a**hats in the legislature that backed this bill not see this kind of reaction coming? Are they really that out of touch? When former governor Jan Brewer was dealing with this last year here in AZ, I'm not sure if we'll ever know where she really stood on this issue. However at least she had her wits about her to veto the bill when the NFL and major corporations were vocal enough to say no to doing business in our state if the bill got signed. One would think the governor of Indiana would have the sense to know how much of a fiasco that was in Arizona, but then again this isn't the bible belt out here.

I think we've recovered from that embarrassing stint here in AZ, fortunately. The story faded fairly quickly, it became business as usual, and the Superbowl this year in Glendale was a big success. Indiana however will have some damage control to contend with for a good long while and that's bad for business.

[Toxic Toast]

Originally Posted by Wardendresden

That was post you referred to was sarcasm. But don't underestimate the power of deviant gods to come up with another reason to declare some people persona non grata in their religious scheme. And I don't mind it if it remains in the religious scheme, it's when it reaches into commerce that it violates the document by which everyone in this nation should be bound first and foremost--the Constitution of the United States.

As several posters have pointed out, once you let the "my providing you commercial service is a violation of my religious freedom" nonsense to take root, it is only a matter of time before guns and bullets are used to clarify what "my" religious freedom really means.

Ha! I am usually pretty good about picking up sarcasm. Your idea was not far off from some things I have seen online, so sarcasm never crossed my mind.

[Serious Conversation]

Originally Posted by Shane73

Right or wrong, how did the governor and all the a**hats in the legislature that backed this bill not see this kind of reaction coming? Are they really that out of touch? When former governor Jan Brewer was dealing with this last year here in AZ, I'm not sure if we'll ever know where she really stood on this issue. However at least she had her wits about her to veto the bill when the NFL and major corporations were vocal enough to say no to doing business in our state if the bill got signed. One would think the governor would know how that didn't go over too well here and the media fiasco that followed, but then again this isn't the bible belt out here. I think we've recovered from that here in AZ, fortunately. Indiana however will have some damage control to contend with for a good long while.

The thing is, as I've said in prior posts, Indiana is a conservative state. It votes largely for conservative politicians. To expect anything other than conservative bills from a conservative state which votes for conservative politicians is ludicrous. Why would the state politicians expect such a ****storm when similar provisions have gone in elsewhere with little notoriety?

Was this bill an extreme and poorly thought out position? Certainly. In hindsight, do I think they should have done it? No - but I think the reaction was not predictable.

[Shane73]

Originally Posted by Emigrations

Was this bill an extreme and poorly thought out position? Certainly. In hindsight, do I think they should have done it? No - but I think the reaction was not predictable.

Then that essentially answers my question (rhetorical), yes they really must be that out of touch. I thought the Republican party stood for good business sense and economic development. If they didn't see this coming then clearly they were missing a good dose of logic.

[Toxic Toast]

Originally Posted by Shane73

I think we've recovered from that embarrassing stint here in AZ, fortunately. The story faded fairly quickly, it became business as usual, and the Superbowl this year in Glendale was a big success. Indiana however will have some damage control to contend with for a good long while and that's bad for business.

Indiana does have damage control to do right now, and deservedly so. However, as the furor fades and people move on to the next issue, I think the reality Indiana will face on some of the ticket items looks more like this:

1) Salesforce - I have no idea what will happen with Salesforce. By all accounts, SF was half-hearted in its commitment to Indianapolis before the RFRA debacle. Depending on who you asked, Salesforce was anywhere from building a new building in downtown Indy to pulling out of town completely. I know.............because one of my buddies works at SalesForce. On more than one occasion, he has been told a forced relocation to California was imminent. I don't know their intentions, but this is really the only thing Indiana stands to lose that matters.

2) Angie's List - This company is so full of s*** it is hilarious. They were in a tough spot already, now they have RFRA to hide behind. They were never going to follow through with their pie in the sky job promises. They just laid off 100 people, and needed the city's help to "expand" and invest. Interesting, you don't hear that reported by any of the pitchfork wielding mob. Angie's List was already in trouble and knew it. The tragic thing here is Pence gave them an out. They were about to look real bad.

3) #BoycottIndiana - I am guessing the majority of people saying they'll never spend a dime in Indiana, probably never have before and never would have anyway. It is like some of the people on this forum that complain about the parking rates in downtown Indianapolis. A handful of people said they would stop going downtown after the parking rates went up. That is good for drumming up your agenda; but ignores the fact that they were not spending money downtown to begin with.

4) Conventions - GenCon is under contract through 2020. By then, Indianapolis will show it is still a deserving host. Who knows what will happen with them, but I think Indy will be fine.

Remember this; Nashville, OKC, Phoenix, and Austin are all in states that have had controversial state actions and boycotts and all kinds of vitriol directed at them at different points in time. None of those cities died, and Indianapolis won't either. I do think now more than ever, Indianapolis has a chip on its shoulder. We've always succeeded despite being in Indiana, not because of it. This situation is going to serve as a national notice of that fact.

[Serious Conversation]

Originally Posted by Shane73

Then that essentially answers my question (rhetorical), yes they really must be that out of touch. I thought the Republican party stood for good business sense and economic development. If they didn't see this coming then clearly they were missing a good dose of logic.

The Republican Party is a lot broader than you think it is. It contains everyone from the libertarians like Ron/Rand Paul (Rand is less than his father), the "country club"/business Republicans, to Jesusland. In Indiana, it's obvious Jesusland is dominant.

[ColdAilment]

Originally Posted by Emigrations

But it is a very conservative state. Once you get out into the small towns and rural areas here, it's not much different than down South. Even Muncie like its Confederate flags.

Really, outside the cities almost everywhere is like that. The midwest outside of the major cities is rather conservative. Take away Chicago and Illinois will be as red as Indiana. But really, Indianapolis, South Bend, Gary, Michigan City, Bloomington, and a few other pockets are the only liberal areas, but they are also the more populated areas.

It's similar in Ohio even. Don't go to Cleveland, Columbus, or Cincinnati, and you're probably in a very conservative area.

[ColdAilment]

Originally Posted by Toxic Toast

Indiana does have damage control to do right now, and deservedly so. However, as the furor fades and people move on to the next issue, I think the reality Indiana will face on some of the ticket items looks more like this:

1) Salesforce - I have no idea what will happen with Salesforce. By all accounts, SF was half-hearted in its commitment to Indianapolis before the RFRA debacle. Depending on who you asked, Salesforce was anywhere from building a new building in downtown Indy to pulling out of town completely. I know.............because one of my buddies works at SalesForce. On more than one occasion, he has been told a forced relocation to California was imminent. I don't know their intentions, but this is really the only thing Indiana stands to lose that matters.

2) Angie's List - This company is so full of s*** it is hilarious. They were in a tough spot already, now they have RFRA to hide behind. They were never going to follow through with their pie in the sky job promises. They just laid off 100 people, and needed the city's help to "expand" and invest. Interesting, you don't hear that reported by any of the pitchfork wielding mob. Angie's List was already in trouble and knew it. The tragic thing here is Pence gave them an out. They were about to look real bad.

3) #BoycottIndiana - I am guessing the majority of people saying they'll never spend a dime in Indiana, probably never have before and never would have anyway. It is like some of the people on this forum that complain about the parking rates in downtown Indianapolis. A handful of people said they would stop going downtown after the parking rates went up. That is good for drumming up your agenda; but ignores the fact that they were not spending money downtown to begin with.

4) Conventions - GenCon is under contract through 2020. By then, Indianapolis will show it is still a deserving host. Who knows what will happen with them, but I think Indy will be fine.

Remember this; Nashville, OKC, Phoenix, and Austin are all in states that have had controversial state actions and boycotts and all kinds of vitriol directed at them at different points in time. None of those cities died, and Indianapolis won't either. I do think now more than ever, Indianapolis has a chip on its shoulder. We've always succeeded despite being in Indiana, not because of it. This situation is going to serve as a national notice of that fact.

Agree with this completely. Indy really stands aside from the state of Indiana.

[Serious Conversation]

Originally Posted by ColdAilment

Really, outside the cities almost everywhere is like that. The midwest outside of the major cities is rather conservative. Take away Chicago and Illinois will be as red as Indiana. But really, Indianapolis, South Bend, Gary, Michigan City, Bloomington, and a few other pockets are the only liberal areas, but they are also the more populated areas.

It's similar in Ohio even. Don't go to Cleveland, Columbus, or Cincinnati, and you're probably in a very conservative area.

Then why don't these liberal areas in Indiana carry the Democrats to victory, as together they probably hold most of the state's population?