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No problem. But am pleased to know you have no desire to eradicate us.
But that does raise a question.
How could one destroy Islam?
We have no essential center. We have no clergy except in the sense all Adult males are clergy. The written Qur'an is not needed for us to follow Islam. Many of us have had no formal teaching of Islam except for what we learned on our own or from our Mother. Even if the Ka'abah and all of Mecca were destroyed it would only be a temporary loss. Every Mosque could be destroyed and it would not cause us to miss as much as one prayer,
What is all essential to Islam that if destroyed would destroy Islam, except the destruction of all Muslims?
Through reason, education, and isolation. I was not speaking those things you mentioned but muslims themselves being changed or people in general not converting. My main point was that I would think the world a better place if it was no longer in existence not necessarily how it would be destroyed.
Muslims don't want to take over the world because we believe the owner of everything is GOD I don't know how can a religion dominate the world and take over? The creator of the thread seems to enjoy the stories about the crusades and the millions that died because of this unnecessary war and wants to watch it in reality with modern weapons.
Through reason, education, and isolation. I was not speaking those things you mentioned but muslims themselves being changed or people in general not converting. My main point was that I would think the world a better place if it was no longer in existence not necessarily how it would be destroyed.
By isolation I assume you mean isolation from other Muslims,
The isolation part would be difficult as we are in every Nation with the possible exception of Iceland and Greenland.
There have been Muslims in the Americas since at least the time of the Spanish Conquistadors. The old Muslim Families in the Americas have had little contact with Muslims outside the Americas, since per-colonial days. Muslims have fought served in the American military in every war dating back to the revolutionary war.
China has one of the oldest Islamic populations in the world and they have very little contact with Muslims outside of China. Same goes with other Nations with large Muslim Populations such as Indonesia the country with the largest Muslim population and they have very little contact with Muslims outside of Indonesia.
Lithuanian and Polish Muslims have had very little contact with non-Polish/Lithuanian Muslims. although the "Lietuva Lipkas" (Lithuanian Muslims) are slowly returning to Lithuania most of us live and were born in the USA.
If you think there is an Arab connection to be Muslim, less than 10% of the World's Muslims are Arab and very few Muslims speak Arabic as a conversational language, Most Muslims have never even been in the Mideast. We have been long separated from any Arabic influence. We have probably lost much by losing any Arabic influence.
As for education I can only speak for Muslims in the USA. I do not know any Muslims that have less than a Baccalaureate I believe our educational levels are comparable with all other US citizens.
As for reasoning abilities and logic that is very individualistic. All of us, Muslims and non-Muslims, have our share of Brilliance and ignorance among our numbers,
05-06-2013, 06:56 PM
2K5Gx2km
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI
By isolation I assume you mean isolation from other Muslims,
The isolation part would be difficult as we are in every Nation with the possible exception of Iceland and Greenland.
There have been Muslims in the Americas since at least the time of the Spanish Conquistadors. The old Muslim Families in the Americas have had little contact with Muslims outside the Americas, since per-colonial days. Muslims have fought served in the American military in every war dating back to the revolutionary war.
China has one of the oldest Islamic populations in the world and they have very little contact with Muslims outside of China. Same goes with other Nations with large Muslim Populations such as Indonesia the country with the largest Muslim population and they have very little contact with Muslims outside of Indonesia.
Lithuanian and Polish Muslims have had very little contact with non-Polish/Lithuanian Muslims. although the "Lietuva Lipkas" (Lithuanian Muslims) are slowly returning to Lithuania most of us live and were born in the USA.
If you think there is an Arab connection to be Muslim, less than 10% of the World's Muslims are Arab and very few Muslims speak Arabic as a conversational language, Most Muslims have never even been in the Mideast. We have been long separated from any Arabic influence. We have probably lost much by losing any Arabic influence.
As for education I can only speak for Muslims in the USA. I do not know any Muslims that have less than a Baccalaureate I believe our educational levels are comparable with all other US citizens.
As for reasoning abilities and logic that is very individualistic. All of us, Muslims and non-Muslims, have our share of Brilliance and ignorance among our numbers,
When I said isolation I was thinking along the lines of non-muslim countries and corporations doing business with them when much of their worldview is antithetical to the west - it is their (the wests) greed, above all, that has given the mulsims a new wind of influence by the west's sharing of technology and giving money to them to exploit their resources. As long as some of these countries and corporations are making fists full of dollars at the expense of their citizens or any standards Islam will push forward into other countries and seek to convert on all levels peoples and nations.
As far as education most of the muslims in the world, esp. those whom you said are already isolated are very ignorant and unable to to even request information that would challenge or at least give another perspective apart from mass indoctrination and propoganda. This said there is much to be said about man's need for some sort of absolute, idealized, and perfectized narrative to account for that ignorance - hence religions of any sort. That will definately be a tougher nut to crack.
As far as reason and logic - given the opportunity, free from threats of violence or imprisonment, goes along way over time when laws and institutions that allow freedom of thought and restrict theocracies are in place holding back concepts like sharia law.
I am not necessarily trying to say that this will be accomplished given your points - just that it would be a better world, IMO, if it were accomplished.
I think we are too independent and place too much emphasis on personal responsibility to ever accept any form of central leader.
One of our common traits is we do not have ordained clergy and are not to accept the words of any man without finding reason to believe they are true.
Each Muslim is responsible for what he/she believes we do not allow the excuse of saying "We were misled" as it is our own responsibility to verify what we believe.
Martin Luther was not a central leader. He was a priest that went against the prevailing interpretations of scripture who was later ex-communicated. The Pope and Emperor were part of the entrenched heirarcy that were threatened by his ideas.
And who says you have to accept the "words of any man without finding reason to believe they are true." That is what we call debate, a very healthy way to reach a consensus and foster, not just religious institutions, but any human endeavor.
And yes of course Muslim have different schools and branches so obviously had some point in time there were breakaways caused by differences of opinion.
Martin Luther was not a central leader. He was a priest that went against the prevailing interpretations of scripture who was later ex-communicated. The Pope and Emperor were part of the entrenched heirarcy that were threatened by his ideas.
And who says you have to accept the "words of any man without finding reason to believe they are true." That is what we call debate, a very healthy way to reach a consensus and foster, not just religious institutions, but any human endeavor.
And yes of course Muslim have different schools and branches so obviously had some point in time there were breakaways caused by differences of opinion.
Perhaps I should have worded "accepting the words of any man" as "Believing the words of any man without finding reason to believe." which better suits the intent of what I meant.
What I did not make clear is there is no religious hierarchy in Islam, we have no ordained clergy. We do not have any leader that has authority to speak for anyone except his self. There is no hierarchy to go against among Sunni. However it is possible to go against various groups.
As for division we are very individual. The only thing you will find all Muslims have in common is we all follow the same 5 pillars of faith. I guess in that sense you could say we are 1.5 billion denominations but all being Brothers and Sisters in one Ummah.
About 80 to 90% of all Muslims are Sunni and typically follow one of the 4 Madhabs. All Madhabs are equal we are encourged to follow one Madhab but there is no rivalry between the Madhabs. The Madhabs are more of an adaptation to local conditions typically we follow the madhab of the Imam of the Mosque we attend most often.
We are not organized into an institution in the same fashion Churches are organized. There is more emphasis placed upon personal responsibility and accepting responsibility for what we believe.
However we will all unite under a caliphate, under the rule of a God(swt) ordained Caliph. Most of us believe the last true caliphate ended with the death of the 4th Imam and there will not be another until the Return of Jesus(as) and the coming of the Mehdi.
Others may differ with my opinions. Each Muslim speaks only for himself,
When I said isolation I was thinking along the lines of non-muslim countries and corporations doing business with them when much of their worldview is antithetical to the west - it is their (the wests) greed, above all, that has given the mulsims a new wind of influence by the west's sharing of technology and giving money to them to exploit their resources. As long as some of these countries and corporations are making fists full of dollars at the expense of their citizens or any standards Islam will push forward into other countries and seek to convert on all levels peoples and nations.
As far as education most of the muslims in the world, esp. those whom you said are already isolated are very ignorant and unable to to even request information that would challenge or at least give another perspective apart from mass indoctrination and propoganda. This said there is much to be said about man's need for some sort of absolute, idealized, and perfectized narrative to account for that ignorance - hence religions of any sort. That will definately be a tougher nut to crack.
As far as reason and logic - given the opportunity, free from threats of violence or imprisonment, goes along way over time when laws and institutions that allow freedom of thought and restrict theocracies are in place holding back concepts like sharia law.
I am not necessarily trying to say that this will be accomplished given your points - just that it would be a better world, IMO, if it were accomplished.
Here you will get what is strictly my own opinion. I see the reason the USA does business with the Muslim Nations is all related to oil. Not so much because we need the oil, but to keep China from getting it.
Just a view here Shortly before all the mess with Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, China had signed the largest oil deal in history with Iraq. But the problem is for China to get the oil they need to build a Pipeline through Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran.
Currently China does not have the fuel sources to mobilize their potential Military might. I do not believe we want them to have that available to them.
I certainly dont believe any muslim should be eradicated! none, period!. Ideally your death should come as mine hopefully will, unexpected and at the time God has destined for you(after you have lived a good long life with your friends and loved ones). Let me say though how much respect I have for the people of Saudi Arabia, and the way they run there countries affairs with regard to religion...I say this because my belief is that the United States ought to copy them to an extent, and that extent is regarding our nations most prominent religion(the one it was founded on) and here is where 9 out of 10 muslims men reading this are going to dislike me. People are allowed to practice there religion regardless of what that religion is, but are forbidden to establish places of worship in places like Mecca and Medina(could you imagine a 'Church of St.Paul right beside the Kaaba?, neither could they!). Now im sure you get where im going with this,this country was est. and colonized by a people looking for rights to worship there God who was YHWH/Jesus Christ; and the immigrants ought not be able to establish the Synagogues or Mosques anywhere in this country. From this day on you ought to look to the kindness and charity of the Christian while u are in there land, watch how well taken care of you are and watch how your rights are upheld. This country is not for religious freedom, it is for Christian religious freedom. Good day and god bless.
This may sound like an extreme question but recently I read something that shocked me in this very forum.
This evil force this person is referring to is Islam (I know this because of the thread content surrounding this post). I find it shocking that people can even think this way but I guess some people want to see what happened to the Jews in the holocaust happen to Islamic people now. So I propose this serious question, Do you believe all Islamic people should be eradicated? Vote in the poll.
First, I voted no we should not destroy a religion just because a minority of people in the religion believe that violence is part of God's work. If that were the case we might as well destroy Christianity, Judaism and Hinduism as well (I'm not sure about Buddhism). All religions have their extremists.
The quoted post above is what you're going to get on this forum sometimes. There are a few people who are radical in their views whether it be politics or religion.
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