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you gave a score for cosmology without real debate or clear evidence here
in the fact i didn't understood your objections
A reading of genesis (I suppose you have read it?) and a discussion of it (such as there has been on this very forum) shows that the Abrahamic creation story had a chaos split in the middle to separate a domed sky from a circular flat earth.
21-[30:33]
Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder?
The heavenly bodies were indeed supposed to describe a circular course, trundiing around the inside of the sky dome. And We have made the heavens as a canopy..and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.
That is what the Quran is describing, not the cosmos as science has revealed it to be. The Quran has not been shown to contain any advanced science, despite the best efforts of the believers. Therefore it can hardly be regarded as the dictation of a Cosmic spirit since it appears to come in a poor second to science.
It does not help when its adherents walk out of medical classes to Jump on the creationist bandwagon.
What a blistering riposte. One would think that a god could do better than that. The Bible contains similarly banal and self-serving statements.
Dear Catman, believe , I myself am fearful of gods anger and pardon him for my sins often . yes he is very merciful and forgiveness but can be so hard to turbulent and intractable humans who are against him ( don't forget he is creator and lord of universe so he expect human does respect to him and worship him no oppose and repudiate him ). sometime I read this godly pray because of fear of lord :
: "our lord, we have heard the caller (Mohamed ) calling to belief, "believe in your lord!" so we believe. our lord, forgive us our sins and acquit us of our evil deeds, and take us to you in death with the righteous. (193) "
also this captures is not reason which lord is not merciful to people he is more merciful than parents to human but some selfish humans follow whisper of Satan and show enmity to god and are ungrateful to him and try mislead others so god want threats them to go back
you gave a score for cosmology without real debate or clear evidence here
in the fact i didn't understood your objections
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur
There is nothing to debate. Myths will always lose to science...
What is there to debate when the text speaks of a canopy? We know it is not a canopy but to the desert dwellers who knew/know no different w/o the aid of telescopes it sure looked like a dome/canopy. Flat earthers tend to think that way.
Then you have texts claiming mo split the moon and we have seen posts here of muslims claiming this as fact and you want to tell us this is science?
I think I will stick with NASA
Where ever the Arabs were heading in evolving as a scientific culture, old mo really threw a spanner in the works with the q'ran. Who knows where you folk may have been by now, hell you may have even discovered your own oil.
Threatening atheists is NOT a good way to convert them....Islam would be the last religion I would ever consider in any case...
Sansuper , my purpose was not to threat atheists. That was what lord has said in his last scripture " Quran" and I only reflect it to this post for warning! I told myself (in a humanity manner) let atheists be announced what is the promise god to them so may they go back . also refer to my reply to Mr. Cat man, please
there is a poem say :" if you are seeing a blind is going toward a cavern and you be silent(don't announce him) that is a sin "
(Thankfully, the west, when allied, has an impressive technologically advanced defense mechanism...)
HaHaHaHa....(excuse me laughing was unintended ) .... what is your mean about West defense mechanism ?! ....there is not any word about war and similar ....war is the logic of illogic groups ....what we are talking about, is gods ultimatum to atheist and other non believers about future and doomsday
Sansuper , my purpose was not to threat atheists. That was what lord has said in his last scripture " Quran" and I only reflect it to this post for warning! I told myself (in a humanity manner) let atheists be announced what is the promise god to them so may they go back . also refer to my reply to Mr. Cat man, please
there is a poem say :" if you are seeing a blind is going toward a cavern and you be silent(don't announce him) that is a sin "
If you quote the Qura'n, any part of the Qura'n on disbelievers it is always threatening towards us...
You cavern analogy...(trying to save us in spite of our disbelief) is lame, and still a threat...As far as I am concerned that cavern is already full of religious people who have been stumbling around lost in the dark for centuries...
elwil, he said, in effect, that the Qu'Ran makes the skies, the heavens (what we see at night; tiny pin-pricks of intense light) to be pinholes in a cosmic black curtain, literally hung there by God or His angels.
(I wonder how they interpreted shooting stars? Self-healing rips in that cosmic fabric? Hmm...)
We now know quite a bit more, having placed men as far away as the moon, and launched the Voyager and Mars Rover spacecraft, and all the other deep space explorer satellites. Plus telescopes and simple logical observation from here on earth.
As a result man knows quite a bit more than the 7th century non-scientific observers and authors of your Qu'Ran did. Of course they had no strong base of knowledge and understanding of such things, so they had to pretty much make it up. We now know they were wrong. Completely wrong.
Science and it's understandings are a cumulative thing, where one new fact opens a doorway to further explorations and therefore further understandings. In this way, it progresses, now at a rapid and accelerating pace, unveiling things that would otherwise seem unfathomable (not able to be understood by anyone), where in fact, specialist scientists have a deep understanding of many areas of knowledge that scientifically uneducated religious folks are simply in awe of, and therefore they assume it's Got to be God, or Allah.
(Note regarding the supposed major scientific abilities of ancient Muslims: old time science was, by comparison to today's methods and tools, simplistic child's play, akin to a drawing of a candle and a nearby pinhole, and an inverted image of the candle projected on a screen.
This was what my mother, in Grade 10 science class, did as a "science project", back in about 1935. Woo-Hoo, huh? Now, kids go visit a linear accelerator or peer down an electron microscope, or grow bacteria on petri dishes in the lab, and then experiment with the effects of different antibiotics on those evolved species of bacteria, and can explain to you and I just how it all works! In fact, they know significantly more "stuff" than a practicing medical doctor did in the 7th century! So much for Islams/ much-vaunted "scientific abilities!")
What is hard to fathom in today's modern world is that so many religious folks won't (can't?) accept that they do not understand much of the technical world, and they know they don't have the specific education, experience or interaction with other professionals to even begin to argue their case, and yet...
...they steadfastly continue to claim their version, with dragons, devils, angels and a man sitting up on a cloud, are all rational and logical, and also factual, entities.
Not really, science has its own facts which negate a creator and the heavens are really not a canopy. We know how it looks that way because we have been to space and have seen beyond the mere musing and limitations of 7th century desert dwellers.
No longer are they pinholes in the curtain of night and lo and behold some of them twinkly things are actually galaxies and perhaps planets.
So Modern cosmology 1: Q'ran 0
what does mislead us from straight way is that we suppose we know a lot while even we can't recognize ourselves well, we opine about what is upon us. we advertise it 0 whereas it is not 0 but number of our eyeglass is 100
GOD defend of his last scripture " Quran " and has invited atheist to a cultural involvement to detect who is right
God say in Quran to atheists : " if you are in doubt of what we have sent down to our worshiper (prophet Mohamed), produce a chapter comparable to it. call upon your helpers, other than allah, to assist you, if you are true. (23) but if you fail, as you are sure to fail, then guard yourselves against the fire whose fuel is people and stones, prepared for the unbelievers. (24) "
What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
"Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
"We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
"But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
"He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).
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Gross misundersandings, on a global scale!
