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Old 10-09-2015, 09:34 AM
 
Location: Here
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This began on the Net with a Muslim but it probably could apply to many religions. The original statement I heard was that Allah requires praise from his follows because he gave mankind countless gifts. I then made the point that if Allah requires praise for the gifts then the gifts are being used to hold the follow hostage in a kind of limited manner. I said that if I were to give someone $100 with the stipulation that I receive a thank you every time the person and I met, not only would the $100 not exactly be a gift, but I would consider myself a pretty shallow person. The Muslim then stated that Allah doesn't care about receiving praise or being thanked, that the praise was for the benefit of the follower, making him feel better. My response was that if Allah does not care about the praise, then there is no good reason why the praise should make the follower feel better. As for appreciating life and all the good things it entails, that requires no god and of course no praise.

So, what is the reason for praising Allah?
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Old 10-09-2015, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalileoSmith View Post
This began on the Net with a Muslim but it probably could apply to many religions. The original statement I heard was that Allah requires praise from his follows because he gave mankind countless gifts. I then made the point that if Allah requires praise for the gifts then the gifts are being used to hold the follow hostage in a kind of limited manner. I said that if I were to give someone $100 with the stipulation that I receive a thank you every time the person and I met, not only would the $100 not exactly be a gift, but I would consider myself a pretty shallow person. The Muslim then stated that Allah doesn't care about receiving praise or being thanked, that the praise was for the benefit of the follower, making him feel better. My response was that if Allah does not care about the praise, then there is no good reason why the praise should make the follower feel better. As for appreciating life and all the good things it entails, that requires no god and of course no praise.

So, what is the reason for praising Allah?
You are correct Allaah(swt) has no need for our praise.

Therefore we have to consider how praising Allaah(swt) enhances our lives and helps us.

1. It helps keep us humble and knowing we are not the greatest thing in the universe.

2. It helps remind us of our love for him.

3. We our self learn to earn respect through showing respect.


I could go on. I am certain each person will find other reasons it benefits us.

A simple explanation is we Praise Allaah(swt) because it benefits us.

You are correct, if Allaah(swt) does not exist, it would not make us feel better.

But, it does make us feel better.
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Old 10-09-2015, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Here
1,694 posts, read 1,493,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
You are correct Allaah(swt) has no need for our praise.

Therefore we have to consider how praising Allaah(swt) enhances our lives and helps us.

1. It helps keep us humble and knowing we are not the greatest thing in the universe.

2. It helps remind us of our love for him.

3. We our self learn to earn respect through showing respect.


I could go on. I am certain each person will find other reasons it benefits us.

A simple explanation is we Praise Allaah(swt) because it benefits us.

You are correct, if Allaah(swt) does not exist, it would not make us feel better.

But, it does make us feel better.
So if a Muslim were to show no interest in praying, if those things you mentioned manifested themselves in other ways, there would be no negative repercussions from Allah?
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Old 10-09-2015, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Canada
5,878 posts, read 2,379,804 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalileoSmith View Post
This began on the Net with a Muslim but it probably could apply to many religions. The original statement I heard was that Allah requires praise from his follows because he gave mankind countless gifts. I then made the point that if Allah requires praise for the gifts then the gifts are being used to hold the follow hostage in a kind of limited manner. I said that if I were to give someone $100 with the stipulation that I receive a thank you every time the person and I met, not only would the $100 not exactly be a gift, but I would consider myself a pretty shallow person. The Muslim then stated that Allah doesn't care about receiving praise or being thanked, that the praise was for the benefit of the follower, making him feel better. My response was that if Allah does not care about the praise, then there is no good reason why the praise should make the follower feel better. As for appreciating life and all the good things it entails, that requires no god and of course no praise.

So, what is the reason for praising Allah?
It is actually defined as GOD.

Allah | Define Allah at Dictionary.com
Quote:
The name for God, the Supreme Being, in the Arabic language; the common name for God in Islam.
So it's no different than when you hear frequently folks saying "Praise God" when declaring their gratefulness for something...I do think Kim Davis (Kentucky Clerk) has often says this almost overtime she opens her mouth!!
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Old 10-09-2015, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalileoSmith View Post
So if a Muslim were to show no interest in praying, if those things you mentioned manifested themselves in other ways, there would be no negative repercussions from Allah?
If a Muslim deliberatly chooses not to do any of the Obligatory prayers or any of the 5 pillars of faith, he has left Islam. What repercussions if any that would have, I do not know.

While we believe everyone who dies as a Muslim goes to Heaven, we do not who will go to hell. That is between the individual and Allaah(swt)
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Old 10-09-2015, 07:35 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,908 times
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"While we believe everyone who dies as a Muslim goes to Heaven, we do not who will go to hell. That is between the individual and Allaah(swt)"

The quran has over 500 verses saying who will go to hell:

And when he goes away, he strives throughout the land to cause corruption therein and destroy crops and animals. And Allah does not like corruption. And when it is said to him, "Fear Allah ," pride in the sin takes hold of him. Sufficient for him is Hellfire, and how wretched is the resting place. 2:205

Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds [that] for them there is forgiveness and great reward. But those who disbelieve and deny Our signs - those are the companions of Hellfire. 5:9

It is not for the Prophet and those who have believed to ask forgiveness for the polytheists, even if they were relatives, after it has become clear to them that they are companions of Hellfire. 9:113

These are two adversaries who have disputed over their Lord. But those who disbelieved will have cut out for them garments of fire. Poured upon their heads will be scalding water By which is melted that within their bellies and [their] skins. And for [striking] them are maces of iron. Every time they want to get out of Hellfire from anguish, they will be returned to it, and [it will be said], "Taste the punishment of the Burning Fire!" 22:19

But the ones who strove against Our verses, [seeking] to cause failure - those are the companions of Hellfire. 22:51

But they have denied the Hour, and We have prepared for those who deny the Hour a Blaze. When the Hellfire sees them from a distant place, they will hear its fury and roaring. 25:11

And Hellfire will be brought forth for the deviators, And it will be said to them, "Where are those you used to worship Other than Allah ? Can they help you or help themselves?" So they will be overturned into Hellfire 26:91

And that you worship [only] Me? This is a straight path. And he had already led astray from among you much of creation, so did you not use reason? This is the Hellfire which you were promised. [Enter to] burn therein today for what you used to deny." 36:61

Who would say, 'Are you indeed of those who believe That when we have died and become dust and bones, we will indeed be recompensed?'" He will say, "Would you [care to] look?" And he will look and see him in the midst of the Hellfire.

So indeed, you [disbelievers] and whatever you worship,You cannot tempt [anyone] away from Him Except he who is to [enter and] burn in the Hellfire. 37:161

Those [angels] who carry the Throne and those around it exalt [ Allah ] with praise of their Lord and believe in Him and ask forgiveness for those who have believed, [saying], "Our Lord, You have encompassed all things in mercy and knowledge, so forgive those who have repented and followed Your way and protect them from the punishment of Hellfire. 40:7

But if he was of the deniers [who were] astray, Then [for him is] accommodation of scalding water And burning in Hellfire Indeed, this is the true certainty, 56:92

"While we believe everyone who dies as a Muslim goes to Heaven, we do not who will go to hell. That is between the individual and Allaah(swt)"

ROFL! Between the individual and allah? Allah blabbed about it for hundreds of verses!!

Continuum and I certainly fit the bill of those slated for hell fire. Why are you afraid to admit it?

Is this what holds Muslims to Islam?? Hateful threats of endless torture and promises of endless orgies with virgins and young slave boys? Good grief. Look at these verses! Can you really think the CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE would write such garbage?

If anyone threatened me with endless torture I would certainly not submit! And reading about those that do corruption, Muhammed would be roasting away. Rape, slaughter, theft, slavery, selling women, pedophilia....Satan would love that guy!
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Old 10-09-2015, 07:41 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,371 posts, read 1,501,339 times
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If god - and this applies to all the monotheistic religions is omnipotent and omnipresent, presumably he/she/it has no choice in the matter ... it's an unavoidable state of being. Then, indeed, why since it couldn't be any other way, is there any need for praise at all?
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Old 10-09-2015, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"While we believe everyone who dies as a Muslim goes to Heaven, we do not who will go to hell. That is between the individual and Allaah(swt)"

The quran has over 500 verses saying who will go to hell:

And when he goes away, he strives throughout the land to cause corruption therein and destroy crops and animals. And Allah does not like corruption. And when it is said to him, "Fear Allah ," pride in the sin takes hold of him. Sufficient for him is Hellfire, and how wretched is the resting place. 2:205

Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds [that] for them there is forgiveness and great reward. But those who disbelieve and deny Our signs - those are the companions of Hellfire. 5:9

It is not for the Prophet and those who have believed to ask forgiveness for the polytheists, even if they were relatives, after it has become clear to them that they are companions of Hellfire. 9:113

These are two adversaries who have disputed over their Lord. But those who disbelieved will have cut out for them garments of fire. Poured upon their heads will be scalding water By which is melted that within their bellies and [their] skins. And for [striking] them are maces of iron. Every time they want to get out of Hellfire from anguish, they will be returned to it, and [it will be said], "Taste the punishment of the Burning Fire!" 22:19

But the ones who strove against Our verses, [seeking] to cause failure - those are the companions of Hellfire. 22:51

But they have denied the Hour, and We have prepared for those who deny the Hour a Blaze. When the Hellfire sees them from a distant place, they will hear its fury and roaring. 25:11

And Hellfire will be brought forth for the deviators, And it will be said to them, "Where are those you used to worship Other than Allah ? Can they help you or help themselves?" So they will be overturned into Hellfire 26:91

And that you worship [only] Me? This is a straight path. And he had already led astray from among you much of creation, so did you not use reason? This is the Hellfire which you were promised. [Enter to] burn therein today for what you used to deny." 36:61

Who would say, 'Are you indeed of those who believe That when we have died and become dust and bones, we will indeed be recompensed?'" He will say, "Would you [care to] look?" And he will look and see him in the midst of the Hellfire.

So indeed, you [disbelievers] and whatever you worship,You cannot tempt [anyone] away from Him Except he who is to [enter and] burn in the Hellfire. 37:161

Those [angels] who carry the Throne and those around it exalt [ Allah ] with praise of their Lord and believe in Him and ask forgiveness for those who have believed, [saying], "Our Lord, You have encompassed all things in mercy and knowledge, so forgive those who have repented and followed Your way and protect them from the punishment of Hellfire. 40:7

But if he was of the deniers [who were] astray, Then [for him is] accommodation of scalding water And burning in Hellfire Indeed, this is the true certainty, 56:92

"While we believe everyone who dies as a Muslim goes to Heaven, we do not who will go to hell. That is between the individual and Allaah(swt)"

ROFL! Between the individual and allah? Allah blabbed about it for hundreds of verses!!

Continuum and I certainly fit the bill of those slated for hell fire. Why are you afraid to admit it?

Is this what holds Muslims to Islam?? Hateful threats of endless torture and promises of endless orgies with virgins and young slave boys? Good grief. Look at these verses! Can you really think the CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE would write such garbage?

If anyone threatened me with endless torture I would certainly not submit! And reading about those that do corruption, Muhammed would be roasting away. Rape, slaughter, theft, slavery, selling women, pedophilia....Satan would love that guy!

However, we as humans can not see into another person and can not know their intentions, thoughts or reasons.

We might be told of the charecteristics of who the denizens of hell will be, but we do not know who meets those aspects.

No one can point at another person and say that person is going to hell. We have no way of knowing.

That should not even be our concern, our concern should be that we our self avoid the actions that lead to hell.
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Old 10-09-2015, 07:53 PM
 
1,601 posts, read 750,908 times
Reputation: 435
"We might be told of the charecteristics of who the denizens of hell will be, but we do not know who meets those aspects."

Come on. You've read our posts. Continuum and I fit the bill perfectly.

You know that we are destined for endless torture at the hands of allah. And you think we deserve it.

But let me say this...I'll put my morals up against those of muhammed any day!
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Old 10-09-2015, 08:54 PM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,276,969 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by juju33312 View Post
"We might be told of the charecteristics of who the denizens of hell will be, but we do not know who meets those aspects."

Come on. You've read our posts. Continuum and I fit the bill perfectly.

You know that we are destined for endless torture at the hands of allah. And you think we deserve it.

But let me say this...I'll put my morals up against those of muhammed any day!
I can not prove to you I am a Muslim and you can not prove to me you are not one. We each only have the other's word.

It is possible you and Continuum are the best Muslims today practicing Islam to the best of your knowledge and intentions. You may not know the methods, but are doing the best in accordance with your ability and knowledge.

I can not see into your thoughts and intentions. I can not judge if you are or are not a believer. I can only accept your word for it. Even then perhaps because through no fault of your own you have never learned the truth about Islam and therefore will not be judged as a disbeliever.
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