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If someone had a gun pointed to their head and the person lied to placate the gunman I think we'd be fine with that.
If a POW was being tortured by the enemy and he lied I think we'd fine fine with that.
If a cop lied to a suspect to encourage him to confess to the crime I think we'd be fine with that.
If a candidate lied about salary after being coerced into revealing his salary history (which is none fo the hiring companies business) for the purpose of HR determining exacly how much they can lowball him we are suddenly up in arms.
We can't trust Jim he lied about his salary, We can't trust Detective Joe he lied to a child molester to get him to confess, we can't trust Dick he lied to Officer Dan when he was pulled over for speeding, We can't trust Bill, he didn't tell his wife that dress looked awful on her. Can everyone see the slippery slope logic here. We all lie. It is about what and how often that determines how trustworthy we are.
If you try to coerce someone into revealing information that is detrimental to them then most people will lie.
Are you seriously comparing lying about your salary to lying to put a child molester behind bars? That is more than a little offensive...
Ummm...you do realize that even if the person gives inaccurate information, in order for there to be any liability they have to have done so WITH INTENT TO HARM? You know that, right?
Didn't think so.
Oh, and who were you going to start with on the head rolling? And where did you come up with the ridiculous statement that salary was proprietary? The head that should be rolling is the person's who gave you that silly information. In no uncertain terms.
This is unequivocally false. You aren't very good at playing lawyer.
I think you didn't finish writing your post because the concept of a slippery slope is not "logic", it's a textbook example of a logicAL FALLACY.
Precisely. Another example of HR logical falacy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by groar
And yeah, comparing life or death situations to lying to inflate your salary is just silly.
Yet we have people who constantly harp on to every thread saying lying under any circumstances is terrible and makes you a bad person and untrustworthy as if they never told a lie in their life.
The overall theme is that if someone is behaving badly you don't owe them the truth, whether they are a child molester, a petty crook, or an HR Person/Manager looking to rip you off.
Yet we have people who constantly harp on to every thread saying lying under any circumstances is terrible and makes you a bad person and untrustworthy as if they never told a lie in their life.
The overall theme is that if someone is behaving badly you don't owe them the truth, whether they are a child molester, a petty crook, or an HR Person/Manager looking to rip you off.
Lying for personal gain makes you a scumbag and untrustworthy. Obviously lying to keep someone from being molested is a completely different scenario. Any rational person would see that. It is amazing how far you will go to justify the fact that you are comfortable lying to scam your way into a higher salary.
I think you didn't finish writing your post because the concept of a slippery slope is not "logic", it's a textbook example of a logicAL FALLACY.
And yeah, comparing life or death situations to lying to inflate your salary is just silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
Lying for personal gain makes you a scumbag and untrustworthy. Obviously lying to keep someone from being molested is a completely different scenario. Any rational person would see that. It is amazing how far you will go to justify the fact that you are comfortable lying to scam your way into a higher salary.
No lying to avoid being ripped off is fine in my book. Using the threat of rejecting a candidate to force them to give you salary information with the intention of lowballing them is scummy behavior.
i agree that it is really cruddy to ask for salary history and to lowball employees based on that (or based on anything). what you made in your previous jobs should have NO bearing on what you make in a new one. your salary should be based on your labor's market value to your employer, and nothing else.
but at the same time, employers ask these questions. there's nothing stopping them, and there likely never will be. if you choose to lie in response, you should realize that there can be consequences. do i think it's a moral failing to try to get around an unfair system? not necessarily. but it's kind of stupid, because the chances of being caught are very good and the consequences can be pretty dire.
also, YOU are the one who made a slippery slope argument so i'm not sure how that becomes an "hr fallacy".
I lied about my salary during the interview. It was never written on my resume and I only verbally told them what I made. I have started working. They are now doing a background check and they might ask my previous employers for my salary at the time. Am I screwed?
During the salary negotiation part, I also mentioned that I have several higher offers from other companies. I am wondering if I can used this to my benefit?
Yes. Never lie. Assume you will be caught. A person who lies about that will lie about other things, too. It creates the impression that you will lie about your work, your conversation with vendors and customers, your sick time, and a host of other things.
I had an employee like that. He was hired by my business partner, but I could never wholly trust anything the guy ever said. When something bad happened, there was always some convoluted explanation that strained my credulity, but I couldn't disprove.
One day, I was driving to the office one morning and saw this employee out jogging with his girlfriend. I thought to myself, "Huh. Wonder how Stephen is going to make it to the office on time?" Sure enough, one minute after office hours began, my phone rings. It's Stephen with a story about how his appointment at the physical therapist was taking longer than expected.
At the end of the day, he comes by my office with something I requested. So I decided to ask him an innocent question about his sports therapy. He volunteered that his appointment that morning was supposedly at a location across town from where I saw him jogging. When I confronted Stephen, citing how I saw him jogging at a location a good five miles away, he immediately launched into a convoluted BS story --- proof that he could lie with facility. I fired him immediately. My other employees all came to me and thanked me, because the guy had garnered a reputation for lying when the truth is easier.
That's why you don't lie. Because mutual trust is what holds us together as a society. And in business, despite all the paranoid sob stories you hear about exploitive bosses, if there's not mutual trust between employees and employers, that company will fall apart in short order.
And, as far as mentioning your other salary offers, I would then assume that you were lying about that, too. Bad, bad move. I think it's okay to, later in the negotiations, state that you have gotten another offer. But it's a fine line between keeping the interested company informed and jerking them around.
Hey, if your previous salary was low, then this is a great opportunity to talk about how you were underpaid given your output for that employer. Turn it around on the interviewer.
No lying to avoid being ripped off is fine in my book. Using the threat of rejecting a candidate to force them to give you salary information with the intention of lowballing them is scummy behavior.
They would offer you the salary you want if you could prove you deserved it. What you call 'avoiding being ripped off' is nothing but you scamming companies out of money.
They would offer you the salary you want if you could prove you deserved it. What you call 'avoiding being ripped off' is nothing but you scamming companies out of money.
I think the majority of people on the forum will tell you that once they have the information about your current salary they will offer you in the neighborhood 10% more even if their salary range was orginally double that.
Why do you think the internet and almost every book on the subject says don't give them a number and companies have responded by forcing you to or they shred your resume. Companies are the onces doing the scamming or more appropriately price/salary fixing.
BTW companies do not pay people what they deserve. They pay as little as they can get away with and frequently less which is why money ranks up there as one of the top reasons people quit.
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