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It is generally a good practice to not provide an answer to questions that weren't even asked.
As far the pregnancy, that's a grey area. She may not have known she was pregnant yet -- some women, particularly short/thin ones, start to show very quickly in their pregnancy. Or, she may have known she was pregnant but not passed the crucial 12 week mark where it is generally considered "safe" to start telling people as the miscarriage rate drops fairly significantly. If I don't feel safe announcing my pregnancy to my family, I sure as heck don't feel safe announcing it to a potential employer in an interview.
I have worked in some dysfunctional workplaces in my professional life, and I have not bad-mouthed a one of them, nor would I ever (except on here!). With a little bit of advance-thinking, you can turn even the worst job of your life into a "learning experience"...and actually, it's true. At least, it was for me.
As far as the religious observation and days she couldn't work, perhaps she didn't think it was an issue. If her prior workplaces treated it as a non-issue as long as her work was covered, then I could see how she wouldn't even think it'd be an issue going forward. Also, yes, what Hemlock140 said -- asking "Is there anything that would prevent you from coming in to work as scheduled/on time?" would've been a great way to open the door to any of those discussions. And yes, Shabbat is every Friday, but as far as my limited knowledge on the subject -- isn't it sundown Friday to sundown Saturday? In the summer months, sundown doesn't even happen until 8 or later, and I'm getting the impression that this is an office, 8-5, sort of job. In that case, she wouldn't be leaving early for a lot of the year -- and when she does have to leave early, expecting her to make arrangements for her workload coverage is perfectly reasonable.
It is generally a good practice to not provide an answer to questions that weren't even asked.
As far the pregnancy, that's a grey area. She may not have known she was pregnant yet -- some women, particularly short/thin ones, start to show very quickly in their pregnancy. Or, she may have known she was pregnant but not passed the crucial 12 week mark where it is generally considered "safe" to start telling people as the miscarriage rate drops fairly significantly. If I don't feel safe announcing my pregnancy to my family, I sure as heck don't feel safe announcing it to a potential employer in an interview.
I have worked in some dysfunctional workplaces in my professional life, and I have not bad-mouthed a one of them, nor would I ever (except on here!). With a little bit of advance-thinking, you can turn even the worst job of your life into a "learning experience"...and actually, it's true. At least, it was for me.
As far as the religious observation and days she couldn't work, perhaps she didn't think it was an issue. If her prior workplaces treated it as a non-issue as long as her work was covered, then I could see how she wouldn't even think it'd be an issue going forward. Also, yes, what Hemlock140 said -- asking "Is there anything that would prevent you from coming in to work as scheduled/on time?" would've been a great way to open the door to any of those discussions. And yes, Shabbat is every Friday, but as far as my limited knowledge on the subject -- isn't it sundown Friday to sundown Saturday? In the summer months, sundown doesn't even happen until 8 or later, and I'm getting the impression that this is an office, 8-5, sort of job. In that case, she wouldn't be leaving early for a lot of the year -- and when she does have to leave early, expecting her to make arrangements for her workload coverage is perfectly reasonable.
Again, I have no problem with her at all but my director was a little annoyed at the whole thing. Plus she is a new grad, so I am very into looking out for her. I interviewed her and put the ad up for the position and listed, "New grads are welcome." because I feel some allegiance to those starting out.
If no one asked, it isn't a lie. And if someone asked about pregnancy or religion, they were inviting a lawsuit.
Not volunteering information is NOT the same thing as lying. And I'm speaking from an employer's perspective.
Exactly! There is also some information that employers do not provide to employees either. They do not usually volunteer the complete information and people find they have a few additional duties not in the job description or verbally discussed that most of us do to the best of our abilities anyways (just one example) It is not lying.
Correct! My boss wasn't fond of her omitting it during the interview. I was fine with it.
I have had people lie for me in the positions I've held and salary and I don't list all the jobs I've had.
The issue is pregnancy in it of itself cannot be involved in a hiring decision unlike lying about say how long you worked somewhere. You can't ask if you plan to have children and include that in your hiring decisions the same way as you saying you worked at Joe's for 7 months when it was really 6.
Be careful, as you could get caught. And getting caught could be grounds for termination. Is it worth it? I don't think so, but then, I like to sleep at night.
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Originally Posted by chessgeek
There is also some information that employers do not provide to employees either. They do not usually volunteer the complete information and people find they have a few additional duties not in the job description or verbally discussed that most of us do to the best of our abilities anyways (just one example).
You have a good point. I've had that happen to me on more than one occasion where an employer later did that after being hired. Those ended up being the worst jobs I ever had.
I guess it would depend on how desperate I was for work. Lets say you're about to lose your house and have kids to feed and clothe. I'd lie up a storm for that. I just went on a job interview for a job that I didn't want when I saw how bad the area was and was worried about getting to and from work alive every day. I told them the truth about not being willing to work midnights. I'm sure I blew the interview right there. I never want to drive in that area again any way. I swear I saw a crack house or two.
unfortunately you can't really touch the pregnancy question in our culture... women are given a free pass not to mention massive tax writeoffs for having children... some can practically live for free and are better off not working because they'd lose their $50 per month subsidized housing and low cost insurance... that's just the way our society operates. The top and the bottom both suck from the middle... and women with young children get a disproportionately higher amount... The middle class white male who is single gets his biggest piece of the pie taken away, because he's considered 'evil' and a 'stalker' or a 'pedophile' ... I do think it was perhaps dishonest to not disclose pregnanacy or days off needed but clearly the employer simply needs to be more careful and screen more closely... but hey at least she's working!
Ultimately employers should be able to adjust for people's needs for time off... too much these days employers want everyone working 60 hours a week (from what I can tell my parents generation were more willing to 'live at work' at least where I work now) when we have a generation of young people that are saying NO, they don't want to work 60-80 hours a week their whole life with one or two measly weeks off a year to plan a vacation that mostly ends up being a stressful event because one week is not long enough to do anything meaningful, that life is too short to spend every waking moment at work... employers should hire more people, but with the cost of health care, it's cheaper to make everyone work overtime. I think there should be a balance between leeching off the system and being a slave to work and wish it was more like Europe where overtime was not forced upon people and more vacation time was mandated. Everyone should get for example 3 weeks paid and the option to take another 3 weeks unpaid without consequence, or maybe a full 4 weeks for new hires going up to 6 weeks or even 7 weeks for people who have been there 10-20 years.
I do think selective lying to faceless corporations is better than admitting mistakes because unlike in real life situations my experience dealing with corporations is that you don't get brownie points for honesty, you get punishment that you would not have gotten had you kept your mouth shut. Middle management is always looking for ways to make themselves look good to the higher ups. It's mostly a game playing around with the corporate structure. I don't feel any 'sympathy' for most faceless corporations these days and don't consider them my 'friends' .. reading these books that middle management types read that were laying around the workplace about increasing efficiency every way possible... it just feels like corporations want more work than ever for less pay than ever and that the entire workplace has become mechanized and dehumanized. Maybe it's been that way for decades now how would I know.. I hear people used to make 'living wages' back in the day and could actually afford to own houses outright more easily.. how true is this? Blue collar work tend to pay $12 an hour these days.. no surprise the turnover rate would be high.
We have a global problem where automation and high health care costs have made it so that we can't employ the entire population and pay living wage work in developed countries without going into major debt at a government level to keep the benefits provided... worldwide debt levels continue to increase at a record pace, and something will give at some point. If you don't keep up with the chinese slave labor, if you don't cater to the lowest possible denominator, it becomes impossible to compete. Too high a global population, with not enough work available, and a fractional reserve banking system that requires 'perpetually accelerating growth' to function, just is a bad recipe... so now we have quantitative easing where the top 1% is using the federal reserve bond buying to loot as much money from the system as they can before the whole thing implodes Hope you enjoying my rambling.
Absolutely against it. You want a long-term, healthy, honest relationship between an employer and employee. Being a lying scumbag up front is going to be a thorn in that relationship.
That strikes me as one-sided. There are very few "long-term, healthy, honest relationships between an employer and employee" these days. Most employers would lie to YOU without blinking. Management lies to customers and lies to employees. It's second nature. But even so, I wouldn't lie to them. Not worth the repercussions. You'll always be looking over your shoulder and if they find out, the relationship will never be the same. I'm honest just to keep my own nose clean. Not because I expect the same from the other side.
Don't lie about anything that can be verified or which might have legal ramification, and for heaven's sake, don't lie on any background investigation form or anything that requires a signature!
That being said, there's nothing wrong with spinning all previous jobs in a positive light - the employer is certainly going to spin their company the same way, so fair is fair.
Also, feel free to lie to them when they ask idiotic questions such as "Do you like working for lousy pay in a miserable work environment?" Nobody does, but that's about all that's offered these days, so unless you have a better offer, lie. It's not as if they are telling the truth when they tell you how great their company is or how they value performance over BS and connections.
Finally, don't rock the boat. If the place is burning down and your coworkers are killing each other, when management calls you and asks "how are things going?" tell them that everything is great. If you speak the truth, you'll be considered a troublemaker, even though the real problems are the ones you pointed out. For some idiotic reasons, most corporate management believes that problems don't count if everyone ignores them and that screw-ups are fine provided the person involved is a buddy. Don't rock the boat.
That being said, there's nothing wrong with spinning all previous jobs in a positive light - the employer is certainly going to spin their company the same way, so fair is fair.
Exactly. Never tell the unvarnished truth about what you are leaving your old job. If you no longer work there, the claimed reason should be one which meshes with the information your former employer will give if the prospective employer calls and asks.
Lying about salary history is bad. Instead, talk about the "total benefits package" including bonuses and benefits. Did you get a company car? Child Care? Gym? Free lunch? Taco Tuesdays? Those are all part of the "total benefits" of your old position, add them up.
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Finally, don't rock the boat. If the place is burning down and your coworkers are killing each other, when management calls you and asks "how are things going?" tell them that everything is great. If you speak the truth, you'll be considered a troublemaker, even though the real problems are the ones you pointed out. For some idiotic reasons, most corporate management believes that problems don't count if everyone ignores them and that screw-ups are fine provided the person involved is a buddy. Don't rock the boat.
I wouldn't go quite this far. If things are on fire, you need to tell management "We have some challenges, nothing we can't handle".
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... I do think it was perhaps dishonest to not disclose pregnanacy or days off needed but clearly the employer simply needs to be more careful and screen more closely... but hey at least she's working! 
