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Well fine, it is optional. Apply and don't take the option, they will hire people that do take the option.
No, they won't hire people who take that option. Often they don't hire anyone. They just get people to work for free here and there; so, no need to pay an employee. They can just say "well, sorry we didn't like the way you worked". I guarantee this is what will happen. Good luck.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palomalillie
No, they won't hire people who take that option. Often they don't hire anyone. They just get people to work for free here and there; so, no need to pay an employee. They can just say "well, sorry we didn't like the way you worked". I guarantee this is what will happen. Good luck.
Highly doubtful. Even with low skilled work, the time you're spending talking to them, having them come in, and put to work, you're not making any money off of so called free labor in 4 hours.
Heck, having worked at many NGOs, people often commented on our use of volunteers and what they perceived as "free labor". Let me tell you, even volunteers aren't free. They're quite expensive at times and there was a reason why lots of non profits and NGOs require a significant time commitment: they cost money even though they aren't paid.
Highly doubtful. Even with low skilled work, the time you're spending talking to them, having them come in, and put to work, you're not making any money off of so called free labor in 4 hours.
When a company has people coming in all day long, applying and doing 4 hours of free work - then yes, they are making money off those people.
This isn't just about "one" person.
And yes, its free labor if its not paid. Its not "so-called free labor". Its free labor.
Also, the state workforce commission might have something to say about businesses who require someone to do free work, without compensation, before agreeing to hire them. This is really skirting the edge of what's legal.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Right, it is free labor that costs a lot of money to use. Very expensive free labor. There is a reason we eschewed lots of use of volunteers, except for very specific situations, they were too expensive.
Right, it is free labor that costs a lot of money to use. Very expensive free labor. There is a reason we eschewed lots of use of volunteers, except for very specific situations, they were too expensive.
No, its free labor PERIOD.
If it " costs much money to use " then just pay the person and be done with it, why are you arguing this so fervently?
I read that you volunteered for six whole months of your life, thats inane to me personally, your argument is that it cost them tons of money to use you for six months of free labor, they shouldve just paid you and called it a temporary position.
I would hope some folks out there dont fall for this obvious scam, and that they have enough self-esteem to not be used as free labor with with a " possibility for a job " being used as carrot on a stick.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gianoah
No, its free labor PERIOD.
If it " costs much money to use " then just pay the person and be done with it, why are you arguing this so fervently?
I read that you volunteered for six whole months of your life, thats inane to me personally, your argument is that it cost them tons of money to use you for six months of free labor, they shouldve just paid you and called it a temporary position.
I would hope some folks out there dont fall for this obvious scam, and that they have enough self-esteem to not be used as free labor with with a " possibility for a job " being used as carrot on a stick.
I've volunteered and interned for free much longer than that. I volunteer to this day. And no, I didn't argue that they just should've paid me.
It was and still is a way to get your career going, and now I do it because I believe in the causes I volunteer for.
If you don't do these things in the field I was in, you don't get your foot in the door, and you don't get hired. The end.
I'm arguing it fervently because so many people don't know what they're talking about. Even outside this situation, the use of volunteers by non profits (lets say invasive species removal by a local land trust) isn't "free", even though the volunteers aren't paid. They aren't. I've been on both sides, volunteering and running programs that utilize volunteers. It is not free labor. Period. Volunteers cost money to use.
I've volunteered and interned for free much longer than that. I volunteer to this day. And no, I didn't argue that they just should've paid me.
It was and still is a way to get your career going, and now I do it because I believe in the causes I volunteer for.
If you don't do these things in the field I was in, you don't get your foot in the door, and you don't get hired. The end.
I'm arguing it fervently because so many people don't know what they're talking about. Even outside this situation, the use of volunteers by non profits (lets say invasive species removal by a local land trust) isn't "free", even though the volunteers aren't paid. They aren't. I've been on both sides, volunteering and running programs that utilize volunteers. It is not free labor. Period. Volunteers cost money to use.
But were not talking non profits here, were talking for profit organizations wanting folks to volunteer their time and talent for free for the possibility to get a job, that is a ridiculous proposition.
And these companies ARE using free labor, how are you not getting this?
You keep mentioning intangible things " the cost of volunteering " thats nonsense, there is no concrete way of measuring how much that cost is, and my point stands, just pay the people for their time.
And with all due respect, you must be pretty well off to volunteer all this time and work for no paycheck, not everyone is in that same financial position, and I would advise those who need to volunteer insane amounts of time ( over a month of volunteering unless youre on a coop is inane ) to look elsewhere.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gianoah
But were not talking non profits here, were talking for profit organizations wanting folks to volunteer their time and talent for free for the possibility to get a job, that is a ridiculous proposition.
And these companies ARE using free labor, how are you not getting this?
You keep mentioning intangible things " the cost of volunteering " thats nonsense, there is no concrete way of measuring how much that cost is, and my point stands, just pay the people for their time.
And with all due respect, you must be pretty well off to volunteer all this time and work for no paycheck, not everyone is in that same financial position, and I would advise those who need to volunteer insane amounts of time ( over a month of volunteering unless youre on a coop is inane ) to look elsewhere.
Actually there is concrete ways to analyze the costs. We analyzed them at more organizations I worked for, most big organizations do so. It is often found using volunteers is too expensive for prospective activities.
I'm not well off at all. I don't earn that much (especially for Boston) and I've chosen a career path that is relatively (compared to my education level) poorly compensated. I made the right choice for me. It is the right choice now, and it was the right choice right out of undergrad to get my career going (no, no one was supporting me).
And I don't see this proposition, in this scenario, as ridiculous at all. I know many orgs, from food service companies, to start ups, that utilize some form of this arrangement to see if the person fits in, and if they can't hack the work. If you don't like the scenario, the company isn't for you. Simple.
Actually there is concrete ways to analyze the costs. We analyzed them at more organizations I worked for, most big organizations do so. It is often found using volunteers is too expensive for prospective activities.
I'm not well off at all. I don't earn that much (especially for Boston) and I've chosen a career path that is relatively (compared to my education level) poorly compensated. I made the right choice for me. It is the right choice now, and it was the right choice right out of undergrad to get my career going (no, no one was supporting me).
And I don't see this proposition, in this scenario, as ridiculous at all. I know many orgs, from food service companies, to start ups, that utilize some form of this arrangement to see if the person fits in, and if they can't hack the work. If you don't like the scenario, the company isn't for you. Simple.
But like another poster stated, this is not the way to go to see if someone is going to " hack it " or not, there are assessment tests and old fashioned interviewing and reference checking.
Expecting someone to work for free is ridiculous, no matter the industry, unless that person in on a co-op or interning during school.
You mentioned food-service, the restaurant industry is so high stress/low-reward I would honestly hope no one does that in a restaurant.
Like I said, if it costs that much, friggin pay the people for their labor, if they dont work out, youre only out 4 hours at minimum wage, if it does, offer a position and call it a day.
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