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An old friend of my family was a welder. Not only a welder but probably the best any of us have ever seen. He moved to a new area, and was interviewed. He does a very poor interview as he had little education. He heard two people talking, and they had a serious problem welding something they did not know what to do. He told the HM he would like to go out to the floor and show them their problem. He ended up doing the welding himself. They hired him on the spot, and he was hired as lead welder, which was a few steps up from the job he interviewed for. He later told us, "I don't talk so good, but my welding speaks for me".
He put his reputation on the line to prove he was the best welder they ever had, for a chance to get the job. He not only got the job, but started as the best paid welder they had. Alex worked for them till he retired many years later. Many of them as a foreman.
I keep reading the posts by people that think they are the best, and people should just take their word for it, and check references when every HM knows references are not really worth that much any more. But by showing what you can do, takes any doubt out of the picture. Then they wonder why they can't get a job.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl
3. I was in the final stages of multiple interviews with a high-profile not-for-profit organization. We finalists were asked to make a presentation to the board of directors in which we were instructed to address what we saw as the organization's problems and explain what we would do to improve those issues. I put my all into a presentation, which judging from the reactions of the board members seemed very successful. Immediately after the presentation, I was told by the president, in front of the board, that my work was great but she was hiring another candidate because the company wouldn't have to move him as he lived nearby. She then asked me to leave my presentation with her because my ideas were so good they would no doubt want to implement some of them. I said I absolutely would NOT be leaving my presentation and I felt I had been invited under false pretenses if she was unwilling to make available the moving benefits she had told me were available. (Several of the board members later contacted me to apologize and I eventually learned the president was let go.)
What that person did was unprofessional (at best), but asking to create the presentation was not. It was completely normal. As part of one of my hiring processes (at a higher ed org) for research assistants we assigned candidates prospective development candidates to each for them to write a brief on, and asked them to develop talking points on another VIP. Perfectly acceptable practices.
Listen, this is stupid..... they call it volunteering so they dont get sued. You probably dont want to work for a company like this cause they're doing this when you're not even an employee, imagine how much they'd d*** you around when you become an employee.
Morgan Stanley back in Summer 2009 was CHARGING parents $3,000 to be a summer intern. Now that is ballsy. Charging people to work at your firm.
That's because they obviously wanted rich kids working at their firm. However, I think the real truth is that rich kids from old money families have good enough connections to get jobs without having to pay for it.
Sadly, there were probably many poorer college grads who coughed up the money for this, and were ultimately rejected for a job because their middle class background wasn't quite what the firm wanted.
I truly feel sorry for anyone who is so desperate and pathetic, that they would pay to work somewhere. And they won't even get a good reference out of their internship, because companies don't do references anymore (for liability reasons).
Also, 2009 was the worst economy America has seen since the Great Depression. Many businesses starting trying to exploit and take advantage of people who wanted jobs.
If I was a desperate college grad, I would get a job at Taco Bell and try to work my way into a management position. Manager of a restaurant would look totally respectable on a resume and would be a much better springboard to a business career than "intern who had to pay to work somewhere"
Last edited by palomalillie; 09-25-2014 at 10:24 AM..
An old friend of my family was a welder. Not only a welder but probably the best any of us have ever seen. He moved to a new area, and was interviewed. He does a very poor interview as he had little education. He heard two people talking, and they had a serious problem welding something they did not know what to do. He told the HM he would like to go out to the floor and show them their problem. He ended up doing the welding himself. They hired him on the spot, and he was hired as lead welder, which was a few steps up from the job he interviewed for. He later told us, "I don't talk so good, but my welding speaks for me".
He put his reputation on the line to prove he was the best welder they ever had, for a chance to get the job. He not only got the job, but started as the best paid welder they had. Alex worked for them till he retired many years later. Many of them as a foreman.
I keep reading the posts by people that think they are the best, and people should just take their word for it, and check references when every HM knows references are not really worth that much any more. But by showing what you can do, takes any doubt out of the picture. Then they wonder why they can't get a job.
Some jobs could do this, but not all. For example, a documentary has aspiring prison guard employees work for 3 days, without any formal training (don't know if they were paid or not) to see if they have the chops to handle some petty and middle range folks, but still far from societies' best. If they stick it through that long (many of them quit since they feel the weren't up for it), then they give them formal training.
OTOH, some projects are more long term, like project management or software development. For the latter, and interview or phone screening can cover whether or not someone knows core concepts of code or not.
In your example, I wouldn't have minded either volunteering my knowledge or skills. However, if they kept asking me to come back on a voluntary basis like the person in your story has, then no. This is a concern we have, where they could've kept asking him to come back without offering him the carrot. I'm glad it worked out though.
And no, I don't interview or look for work that well, but my references all say I work very well with others and I know my stuff. However, I still need to get past the hurdles of getting my resume to a HM who won't banish it to the void, and still do well on interviews despite dozens and dozens and practice runs.
I was browsing job listings, and there was one that stated you must volunteer four hours before they consider interviewing you. Did you have to do this before? Did you get a chance to sit for an interview?
If it is with the specific company you are applying for, that is actually illegal. You have to get paid and paid minimum wage for the hours you put in. So this throws out the whole "let me work for you for free" logic unless you are talking unpaid internships for current college students.
I can see the whole "paid internship" thing backfiring. If someone did pay $3000 for the "privilege" of working at Morgan Stanley for the summer, how would this look later on to hiring managers? Some might think the person couldn't get hired anywhere else, or they might question his wisdom. He also wouldn't really be able to pretend it was a paid internship. They could do some fact checking and find out that it was an internship the person had paid for to take part in. So this could potentially look very bad to future hiring managers. Of course, I'm sure some might not care that much, but still.....
An old friend of my family was a welder. Not only a welder but probably the best any of us have ever seen. He moved to a new area, and was interviewed. He does a very poor interview as he had little education. He heard two people talking, and they had a serious problem welding something they did not know what to do. He told the HM he would like to go out to the floor and show them their problem. He ended up doing the welding himself. They hired him on the spot, and he was hired as lead welder, which was a few steps up from the job he interviewed for. He later told us, "I don't talk so good, but my welding speaks for me".
He put his reputation on the line to prove he was the best welder they ever had, for a chance to get the job. He not only got the job, but started as the best paid welder they had. Alex worked for them till he retired many years later. Many of them as a foreman.
I keep reading the posts by people that think they are the best, and people should just take their word for it, and check references when every HM knows references are not really worth that much any more. But by showing what you can do, takes any doubt out of the picture. Then they wonder why they can't get a job.
IDK though-in your friend's case he OFFERED to do the work, quite different than being mandated to. I know lots of people, myself included back in the day, that are quite good, and were hired without having to do what amounts to free work. Millions of good talented workers have been hired without having to do that, so if the hiring people were also good at what they do, and did their due diligence, they would hire the right candidate without having to "evaluate" them that way. I would think it a red flag if a company asked me to do free work. I've done "job shadowing" which is different, and perfectly OK.
I'm also not shocked that folks in management would be in favor of the free work concept
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I know lots of people, myself included back in the day, that are quite good, and were hired without having to do what amounts to free work. Millions of good talented workers have been hired without having to do that, so if the hiring people were also good at what they do, and did their due diligence, they would hire the right candidate without having to "evaluate" them that way. I would think it a red flag if a company asked me to do free work.
I've done "job shadowing" which is different, and perfectly OK.
