Finding an entry-level programming job is harder than I expected (applying, degrees)
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If I knew it was gonna be this hard, I would've stayed in college so that the privilege of being a currently enrolled student would make it possible for me to get an internship. Now I'm really in "no man's land" as far as career prospects go. I had been led to believe that a Math, Physics or Statistics student would have a reasonably easy time finding a job if they had basic programming knowledge. Every day I've been gone through every single listing in my state on Indeed, SimplyHired, my university's job board, LinkedIn, CareerBuilder, Monster, and Dice. I'm lucky if, on a given day, I can find a single listing that implies they might let a candidate with no industry experience try out. It gets tedious, especially because you have like 20 different recruiting agencies reposting the same position.
And no, I'm not conveying a feeling of entitlement. I'm just saying that I'm surprised and I would go back and change things if I knew the job market was so difficult to enter. I would be better off if instead of going to college I had just gotten a desk job after high school and spent 4 yrs teaching myself programming. I have no real marketable skills. I accept that. I guess I kinda bought into the lie that majoring in a non-engineering STEM -- in my case Physics -- out of interest, while trying to If I knew it was gonna be this hard, I would've stayed in college so that the privilege of being a currently enrolled student would make it possible for me to get an internship. Now I'm really in "no man's land" as far as career prospects go. I had been led to believe that a Math, Physics or Statistics student would have a reasonably easy time finding a job if they had basic programming knowledge. Every day I've been gone through every single listing in my state on Indeed, SimplyHired, my university's job board, LinkedIn, CareerBuilder, Monster, and Dice. I'm lucky if, on a given day, I can find a single listing that implies they might let a candidate with no industry experience try out. It gets tedious, especially because you have like 20 different recruiting agencies reposting the same position.
And no, I'm not conveying a feeling of entitlement. I'm just saying that I'm surprised and I would go back and change things if I knew the job market was so difficult to enter. I would be better off if instead of going to college I had just gotten a desk job after high school and spent 4 yrs teaching myself programming. I have no real marketable skills. I accept that. I guess I kinda bought into the lie that majoring in a non-engineering STEM -- in my case Physics -- out of interest, while trying to take myself a good base in computer science fundamentals by taking Java courses, linear optimization, numerical analysis, etc., would at least be a good setup for getting an entry-level position in a variety of roles.
I think this is the common issue for many graduates in many different majors and not just the liberal arts and underwater basket weaving majors. We just have too many people (college grads and other job seekers) looking at the same jobs than there are jobs.
I think this is the common issue for many graduates in many different majors and not just the liberal arts and underwater basket weaving majors. We just have too many people (college grads and other job seekers) looking at the same jobs than there are jobs.
Right, but the problem I'm trying to address in this thread is that you have Math and Physics majors told that,
"Yeah, those are great degrees. You can do a lot with them. Did you know that most quants on Wall Street hold a Physics degree?"
Stuff like that. I think it's kind of deceptive because then you have a lot of Math and Physics majors who think they can easily become an actuary, quant, programmer, whatever. Truth is that it's very competitive to secure those jobs and you'll often need advanced degrees in addition to demonstrable technical skills.
So you didn't try to get an internship while you were in school because you didn't think you'd need the experience after you graduated?
While in undergraduate school I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do. During undergraduate school I did a research project, very quantitative in nature, which I thought would help set me up for a variety of careers. No programming internship because I wasn't sure that's what I wanted to do. However, people along the way had told me that it would be a feasible option.
Maybe you should have majored in IT or Comp Science or similar if you wanted a career in programming. If you had one of those degrees, you likely would be working your first job.
Real Word 101 Formula: Physics != Computer Science
I think Robert Noyce Phd Physics started Intel. And engineering is hard to get that first job out of college. Many job listings require experience so I very rarely see job postings for entry level candidates. You're not missing out on not doing STEM.
I had a 7 month $10 /hr internship AFTER COLLEGE doing ISO 9000 documentation. It helped me get my career started.
Maybe you should have majored in IT or Comp Science or similar if you wanted a career in programming. If you had one of those degrees, you likely would be working your first job.
Real Word 101 Formula: Physics != Computer Science
Ok, wise guy. My buddy who works at one of the "Big 4" tech companies told me that your major is just a label and they care only about what skills you have. That's the only reason I'm trying in the first place.
"Like me, the author is having trouble with the fact that 199 out of 200 applicants for every programming job can't write code at all. I repeat: they can't write any code whatsoever."
The things is, I can write code, and I'm confident that I do it well. I spend a lot of my free time on Stack Overflow learning the coolest ways of solving problems and how to adhere to the best coding principles.
Not sure if the OP is venting or really wants help. If they want some help there are some pretty obvious steps that one can take.
First it is totally true that on campus recruiting is the #1 path to decent first job for folks in pretty much ALL majors. Many decent colleges will try to encourage oncampus recruiters to meet with recent grads, even if the recruiters are SPECIFICIALLY looking for a programmer or finance major the OPPORTUNTIY to describe you quantitistive research project might be your best shot at getting further interviews. If you went to a crummy school that does not have good on-campus recruiting you are sorta out of luck from the college angle BUT most technical staffing agencies will gladly sit down with somebody that really does have solid skills and at least help direct you in how to "package" yourself for getting looked at by their clients -- firms often will "take a gamble" on somebody that goes the extra mile to try to get into a good company BUT you have to work 3x harder. Honestly Friday I interviewed a guy for an intermediate technical role in the firm I work for. He has a lot of potential but I did not "pull the trigger" ion him becuase he did not do things that would have impressed me. He did not know what firms we compete with. He did not express a desire to grow into a technical leadership role. He did not even seem all that excited to have us select him for an interview. My boss asked me if we should tell him "thanks but no thanks" and my answer was "not yet". I want to see how he compares to other kids his age, but I have other kids scheduled to come in next week and if one of them seem like the did the kind of homework that I know I do before an interview that person will get the nod...
Applying for jobs that NOT A MATCH is not a prudent use of your time. Instead try to determine which forms have MULTIPLE openings, then target your resume to the POSSIBILITY that they might be willing to take on ONE non-tradiitonal new hire for like every half a dozen regular CS or finance majors. Impress the heck out of the HR people -- be polite, energetic, enthusiastic, ask for maybe a preliminary meeting instead of full blow interview. If they say be super well prepared. Talk about the DETAILS of how your research project made you realize the power / potential of programming. Be aware of stuff in the WSJ about the company. Act you want to help the company increas profits / market share by working your tail off...
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