Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. . .Even the most liberal reformed Jew must accept the Torah as their single moral guide or risk no longer being able to call themselves a Jew.
My mother was Jewish (my father was too); her mother was Jewish (her father was too); my great grandmother was Jewish (so was my great grandfather); etc. My children are Jewish (their father is too).
You can call me a good Jew or bad Jew, you're welcome to judge my observance, but please explain how I am risking no longer being able to call myself a Jew, whatever I might consider when I think about what is moral, even if that means I might include other sources than Torah.
My mother was Jewish (my father was too); her mother was Jewish (her father was too); my great grandmother was Jewish (so was my great grandfather); etc. My children are Jewish (their father is too).
You can call me a good Jew or bad Jew, you're welcome to judge my observance, but please explain how I am risking no longer being able to call myself a Jew, whatever I might consider when I think about what is moral, even if that means I might include other sources than Torah.
When a Jew abondons the Torah and the moral guidance it provides the Jew, within 1-2 generations, there are typically no Jews left in that family line. This has been well documented, and it's a statistical certainty that the vast majority of Jews who abandon Torah eventually will Baptize their grandchildren.
If you want to use the Tao or the New York Times or Oprah Winfrey as your moral guide, knock yourself out. Just don't wonder why your kids are marrying non-Jews and your grandkids enjoy going to church so much and your great grandkids begin persecuting Jews.
...But that has historicly been the view of Chrstians and apostates. We jews only have access to one single moral compass, and that's Torah. To be guided by anything else is apostasy...
. . .risk no longer being able to call themselves a Jew.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzco
. . .
You can call me a good Jew or bad Jew, you're welcome to judge my observance, but please explain how I am risking no longer being able to call myself a Jew, whatever I might consider when I think about what is moral, even if that means I might include other sources than Torah.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop
When a Jew abondons the Torah and the moral guidance it provides the Jew, within 1-2 generations, there are typically no Jews left in that family line. This has been well documented, and it's a statistical certainty that the vast majority of Jews who abandon Torah eventually will Baptize their grandchildren.
If you want to use the Tao or the New York Times or Oprah Winfrey as your moral guide, knock yourself out. Just don't wonder why your kids are marrying non-Jews and your grandkids enjoy going to church so much and your great grandkids begin persecuting Jews.
This may be true, but why do you say I risk not being able to call myself a Jew?
This may be true, but why do you say I risk not being able to call myself a Jew?
It's a dispute among the poskim if a born Jew who espouses anti-Torah ideals can consider himself a Jew or not. Because it's a makloikes, I used the softer term "risk" instead of saying they are "davka" not Jewish. I'm trying to be respectful to any Jewish apostates who may post in this forum.
Yes, Talmud is Torah. Some will call it the Oral Torah. The foundation of what is found in the Talmud was given to Moshe Rabbeinu at Har Sinai. Without the Oral Torah, the written Torah is worthless. They are too deeply interconnected to be able to say one is Torah and one is not. One Torah.
FYI: the link you provided is a Chrstian source, and basically confirms the theme of the last few pages of this thread. That the usage of non-Jewish guidance for one's morality, or for that matter, understanding of the Torah, will lead one down the path to becoming a non-Jew. The only proper place for a Jew to build their moral compass is based on the Torah itself, and all other non-Jewish sources may be interesting, but ultimately are not to be trusted.
Yes, Talmud is Torah. ....
FYI: the link you provided is a Chrstian source, and basically confirms the theme of the last few pages of this thread. That the usage of non-Jewish guidance for one's morality, or for that matter, understanding of the Torah, will lead one down the path to becoming a non-Jew. The only proper place for a Jew to build their moral compass is based on the Torah itself, and all other non-Jewish sources may be interesting, but ultimately are not to be trusted.
No. Talmud is the reference guide for the Torah.
FWIW: I use links that are easy for the majority of C-D users to understand. Your comment is considered as a Lashon Hara (loosely translated to bad tongue (improper speech).
Which comment are you talking about? I don't see where theflipflop committed L''H. I'm sure he's read Chofetz Chaim so he wouldn't be slandering other Jews.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
