My wife's brother is getting married and she can't stop crying (biblical, dating)
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Reconstructionist Judaism is more conservative than Reform. They keep kosher, for example. Well, you don't HAVE to, but it is very much encouraged and at their events you will likely be served only kosher food.
"Ultra-Reform" probably only means that they were very liberal and e.g. didn't even wear kippah in their synagogue. It's a remnant of a very radical Reform movement in Germany before WWII where Reform Judaism was started in the first place.
I'd like Flip Flop to answer my questtion of "Ultra Orthodox". From the people met many, many years ago they did not keep kosher and told me how they took different parts of the Reform movement and made it a movement of their own....something like that. I know the Reform started in Germany...and the Reform here have their services in both English and Hebrew. But when they started the Reform movement here, it was all in English.
I'd like Flip Flop to answer my questtion of "Ultra Orthodox". From the people met many, many years ago they did not keep kosher and told me how they took different parts of the Reform movement and made it a movement of their own....something like that. I know the Reform started in Germany...and the Reform here have their services in both English and Hebrew. But when they started the Reform movement here, it was all in English.
Maybe TFF will be so kind to answer you. He refuses to answer me (likely beause he doesn't have a good answer to refute my points) but maybe you will get lucky as the answer comes from is personal experience and requires no argumentation.
TFF, you will not dry your wife's tears by parsing out the differences between these movements, although that's certainly a worthwhile exercise.
If you and she are concerned for the future unity of your family, and closeness among first cousins which is precious, I can tell you from 35 years' experience married to a family of brothers covering these movements that it is all possible if people work hard to accommodate each other at simchas, Shabbat meals, and stop deciding/declaring that one way is "right" (Torah-observant) or more "relevant" (nonOrthodox).
My brothers-in-law are all born Reform Jews who either maintained that, or became (one each): Conservative, B.T. Orthodox, Reconstructionist, Reform. All became highly educated Jews within their own movements. The wives either were born Jewish or became Jewish under different movements' supervisiions. Everyone's passionate, cares a lot, and practices according to their movement.
Assembling for Pesach proved too hard, which broke up their family seder of 100 years on U.S. soil. But the rest: Shabbat visits, lifecycle, holidays all occur with various accommodations for start-times, food served and more. Different services in each others' synagogues, and shiva rules at home according to how different movements count a minyan, also proved difficult and bruised feelings but can anyone tell me their shiva week with sibings went smoothly? No. These are times of stress for families, and if people decide the stress derives from the ritual differences, it will be worse. If people look for the unifiers, they can heal and celebrate together. THAT"s a real choice, that TFF and his wife may imagine as a challenge, which it will be, but doable.
That does NOT mean the Reform and Recon brothers cater kosher, although at one Bar Mitzvah that was a path chosen by the host family because the meal was at their recon synagogue that required it.
Children at first mimicked their parents walking through their aunts' kitchens to act like the unappointed mashgiach (kosher supervisor), particularly obnoxious. Depending on the aunt's level of forbearance, some stopped inviting to eat. Other solutions used over years: paper plates with carefully selected foods, sealed meals ordered only for kosher relatives, and families who walked in with their own food in paper bags.
The children-cousins were all NOT confused because their primary goal is always to gather. Children are very smart, and watch how their parents solve problems. Most stayed aligned with the way they were raised, although as young adults theres been movement in ALL directions.
For you and your wife right now, I'd encourage: if nobody gives up, you can work out all differences enough for most family gatherings. If you spend the gathering focussing (from either "side") on differences, yes, you can all fracture your family over it. But that's up to you and your wife, as well as her brother and his new wife, to do the work to figure things out.
Most likely, your future sister-in-law just wants to become family, and brother-in-law wants second marriage to succeed. How you and your wife position yourselves to let that happe your responsibility. They sound like they're going to build a Reform Jewish household in a movement that will fully accept her children until/unless they want different in their own adult lives. If you tell your own children their cousins are not Jewish, by age 5 your niece and nephew will have heard that through your children. Leave her conversion alone, let her raise a family as Reform Jews in the U.S., and you'll all be a lot better off as an extended Jewish family, is my experience.
Last edited by BrightRabbit; 09-07-2015 at 11:14 AM..
Assembling for Pesach proved too hard, which broke up their family seder of 100 years on U.S. soil.
That is a very sad post, BrightRabbit.
Being an Atheist, the only thing I know about Passover is from watching "The Ten Commandments". I get the impression it is an important Jewish holiday where Jews get together to celebrate their common heritage. From what you say, it sounds like a 100 year-old family celebration was broken up because people could not agree on the rules for the celebration.
Could anyone believe their god was pleased to see this?
Maybe TFF will be so kind to answer you. He refuses to answer me (likely beause he doesn't have a good answer to refute my points) but maybe you will get lucky as the answer comes from is personal experience and requires no argumentation.
Being an Atheist, the only thing I know about Passover is from watching "The Ten Commandments". I get the impression it is an important Jewish holiday where Jews get together to celebrate their common heritage. From what you say, it sounds like a 100 year-old family celebration was broken up because people could not agree on the rules for the celebration.
Could anyone believe their god was pleased to see this?
Well, hiker45,I sure meant it as a happy post, to inspire. You chose to zoom in on the only thing in there to harp upon and make your sorry point as an Atheist.
Why is that night different? On Passover only, our very large extended Jewish family now has three home seders according to kitchen requirements of 3 movements. On all other nights, we dine together.
You're an Atheist. Why do you ask me a rhetorical question about whether my god is pleased? I couldn't possibly answer that, and if I could, you wouldn't accept any answer so why try.
On Passover only, our very large extended Jewish family now has three home seders according to kitchen requirements of 3 movements.
Like I said, that seems very sad to me. Instead of celebrating a special holiday together, you have to divide into three groups just because the people could not agree on the food to be eaten.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrightRabbit
Why do you ask me a rhetorical question about whether my god is pleased?
That is not what I asked. I asked if anyone believes their god is pleased to see a family divided because of a disagreement over food. A simple Yes or No would be a sufficient response to my question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker45
Could anyone believe their god was pleased to see this?
A simple Yes or No would be a sufficient response to my question. Could anyone believe their god was pleased to see this?
Yes, Hashem is very pleased to see Jews fulfilling the mitzvot of having a Passover seder.
every mitzvah done by every Jew, even the most simple Jew, even the most simple mitzvah, brings joy to Hashem.
so BrightRabbit's family members and family seders bring much joy to Hashem
one could even venture that if a seder brings joy to God, then more seders bring more joy to God
that is the difference between humans and god
god sees the good we do, whereas humans seek to find fault
yes god is very happy
Being an Atheist, the only thing I know about Passover is from watching "The Ten Commandments". I get the impression it is an important Jewish holiday where Jews get together to celebrate their common heritage. From what you say, it sounds like a 100 year-old family celebration was broken up because people could not agree on the rules for the celebration.
Could anyone believe their god was pleased to see this?
It is an international affair found in countries all over the world, even America. A country will be split between two people, and one becomes the master of the other, and then they bend their knee and pray for deliverance and God sends them a delivery. This did not begin with Moses, it has always been and will always be just as we see the future prophesy of the Egyptians calling out for deliverance and they are sent a great and mighty deliverer.
Isaiah 19
Blessing to Egypt, Assyria, Israel
…19In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar to the LORD near its border. 20It will become a sign and a witness to the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt; for they will cry to the LORD because of oppressors, and He will send them a Savior and a Champion, and He will deliver them. 21Thus the LORD will make Himself known to Egypt, and the Egyptians will know the LORD in that day. They will even worship with sacrifice and offering, and will make a vow to the LORD and perform it.…
Was Moses and his Passover the first or the last?
The Destruction of Israel
…6The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth, He who calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the face of the earth, The LORD is His name. 7"Are you not as the sons of Ethiopia to Me, O sons of Israel?" declares the LORD. "Have I not brought up Israel from the land of Egypt, And the Philistines from Caphtor and the Arameans from Kir? 8"Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are on the sinful kingdom, And I will destroy it from the face of the earth; Nevertheless, I will not totally destroy the house of Jacob," Declares the LORD.…
See, there are two kingdoms.
One is the evil kingdom
One is the righteous kingdom.
The flesh tries to rule over the whole creation but there is a child of God within the flesh{maybe not you, yet}, and it is a constant battle of good and evil but God would even call you out, because the firstborn really will die, just as all flesh will.
God calls all people out of Egypt, the system of the world, and he would have all people keep his Passover as a Memorial between you and him that you have searched your life for sin as one who hunts for the leaven, and you come out of the world in which you follow the desires of the flesh.
Either way, the waters will stand on end, and the hidden chambers of the heart will be exposed, and he will be there between your waters.
If 3 groups are keeping the Passover, they are still keeping the Passover.
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