My wife's brother is getting married and she can't stop crying (Bible, marry)

[Tzaphkiel]

Originally Posted by Pruzhany

One has to read between the lines to see that both our Ba'al Teshuvas are doing this before Aseret Yemei Teshuva. Did you really it was a coincidence that they both made these thread within the 30 days before Rosh Hashana??

If you are going to make a statement like this, please explain more, elaborate more on what you mean, about the significance of the topics, the time of year, and the connection to a ba'al tshuva. in this way we can have more clarity and also learn, rather than trying to guess or infer from insinuation

thank you

[Hannibal Flavius]

Originally Posted by hiker45

Does that mean the destruction of the Second Temple meant the Jews were in exile?

To my knowledge, some Jews now live in Jerusalem. If the Temple were rebuilt but no Jews changed the location where they now live, would the Jews no longer be in exile?

I'm trying to understand exactly what it means for the Jews to be "in exile". I thought it meant people were not able to live where they want to live, but it seems that you are saying "in exile" depends on whether or not a certain building (the Temple) exists.

Understand that Christianity has Rome, and Islam has Mecca, and for 2000 years both have fought against Israel having their own city, their own Temple or their own land.

One day, when the whole world stops calling for the genocide of all Jews, and one day when the world acknowledges that Jerusalem belongs to Jews, and one day when Jews are permitted to make pilgrimages to their own Temple, maybe THEN, it will seem like there is no exile.

Let's not pretend that Israel has not given up all it's land just trying to make peace, JUST TRYING to get people to stop calling for Genocide against the whole race.

Is the United Nations in support of Jews being able to live in Israel and to be able to breath in and breath out? No, They don't support a Jewish state at all, and when war comes, the United Nations sets it positions and sits there and watches as tunnels are being built for terrorists.

Until Nations stop calling for the destruction of all Jews living in Israel, how is there not an exile when the whole world goes out of it's way to keep Jews limited, and continuously taking the side of known terrorists groups like Hamas?


When will all nations recognize the right to let Jews in Israel live?


Next year in Jerusalem.


As Long as there are Jews out there who need assistance in returning to Israel, there will be hope in the world.

Let us all pray that there will always be Jews to lift up on your shoulders in order to help them return and live in Israel, Woe is us when there is no mission, father give me a mission I pray.

[theflipflop]

Originally Posted by Pruzhany

Universally is where??? Israel?

Is her mother Jewish? grandmother??

She's not Jewish. Her mother had a reform conversion before she was born. Her grandmother lived and died a goy.

Reform Jews are Jewish if their mother and grandmother are born Jewish. You need to stop that nonsense trying to paint me as saying Reform Jews are not Jewish just because they are reform.

[usuario]

Originally Posted by theflipflop

So last week, we found out his fiancée is the daughter of a reform concert. Even though she has lived every day of her life as a "Jew," she of course is not actually Jewish. I'm pretty sure my brother in law does not realize his future kids would not be universally accepted as Jewish.

Ugh. My wife can't stop crying. All of our brothers and sisters married non-Jews. It's just utter devastation of 2 Jewish families.

I just don't know how to console my wife, and all I keep thinking is when will this horrible, painful exile the Jewish people are in come to and end?

This thread summarizes everything that is wrong with the Judaism today. The sinat chinam , and using chumrot of geirut to exclude people who otherwise have a strong Jewish identity is nauseating. I think there is seriously something messed up in Orthodox Judaism when it is preferable for a Jewish man to marry a pagan with a Jewish mother than to marry a sincere non-Orthodox convert who is committed to avodat Hashem and the Jewish people.

Who cares about anti-Semites? Iran? BDS? White supremacist anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists? Whatever. The Jewish people will be destroyed by close-minded religious tribalism disguised as halacha.


I vote this thread the C-D Jewish Forum's #1 chillul hashem of the year 5775.


GLOSSARY
Sinat chinam: baseless hatred
Chumrot: religious stringencies beyond the requirements of Jewish law
geirut: conversion
avodat Hashem: service/worship of God
halacha: Jewish law
chillul hashem: desecration of God's name: actions that bring shame to religious Jews and belief in God and Torah

[theflipflop]

Feel free to turn this into an "I hate Orthodox Jews and halacha" thread. But the purpose of this thread apparently cannot be understood by the rag-tag mix of converts and OTD Jews in this forum.

You all deeply disappoint me.

[Tzaphkiel]

Originally Posted by usuario

Chumrot: religious stringencies beyond the requirements of Jewish law
halacha: Jewish law

but since a Reform conversion does not meet the requirements of Jewish law,
there is no stringency "beyond" the law because the law has not been met

[Hannibal Flavius]

Originally Posted by usuario

This thread summarizes everything that is wrong with the Judaism today. The sinat chinam , and using chumrot of geirut to exclude people who otherwise have a strong Jewish identity is nauseating. I think there is seriously something messed up in Orthodox Judaism when it is preferable for a Jewish man to marry a pagan with a Jewish mother than to marry a sincere non-Orthodox convert who is committed to avodat Hashem and the Jewish people.

Who cares about anti-Semites? Iran? BDS? White supremacist anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists? Whatever. The Jewish people will be destroyed by close-minded religious tribalism disguised as halacha.


Sinat chinam: baseless hatred
Chumrot: religious stringencies beyond the requirements of Jewish law
geirut: conversion
avodat Hashem: service/worship of God
halacha: Jewish law

I see good points in what you say and I am a Gentile, but I can't help but think of the people who died in the last 2000 years because they were Jewish and stuck out like sore thumbs because they were Jewish. Can't help but think of Nehemiah and I am still biased in support of what you say because I am a gentile who supports Jews.

I can't help but think there is a very good reason to remain Jewish after so many people have died because they were, and after so many had changed faiths because they didn't want to die.

God gives his people very peculiar ways and keeping those ways will kill you whether Jew or Gentile. And it seems only right that if a Gentile has endured the persecution that would come to a Jew, then he would seem to be a part of the family.

And Yet, there still seems to be a difference, I mean, it's as if, well, I guess I can't explain it.

[Tzaphkiel]

Originally Posted by usuario

desecration of God's name: actions that bring shame to religious Jews and belief in God and Torah

as Jews we follow Torah and halacha, that is how we bind ourselves to God
and that is how the Jewish people have survived

not by discarding halacha, not by saying we will only follow the bits we feel like following

people died so I could live as a Jew
the very least I can do is live like a Jew and follow halacha

[usuario]

Originally Posted by theflipflop

Feel free to turn this into an "I hate Orthodox Jews and halacha" thread. But the purpose of this thread apparently cannot be understood by the rag-tag mix of converts and OTD Jews in this forum.

You all deeply disappoint me.

TFF, why don't you show this thread to any kiruv rabbi. He may agree with you and your wife's viewpoints. He will agree that although this thread serves as a point for you to vent your personal frustrations, it will only push non-frum Jews away from the Taryag Mitzvot. It makes a mockery of God, the Torah, and religious Jews in general, hence it's a chillul hashem. The thread does not help anyone except you.

Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel

but since a Reform conversion does not meet the requirements of Jewish law,
there is no stringency "beyond" the law because the law has not been met

Reform conversions that involve brit milah / hatafat dam brit and tevilah in front of three Jewish witnesses do meet the requirements of Jewish law.

Hey TFF and Tzaphkiel, you two are BTs, right? Think back to the first weeks when you were convinced of the truth of Torah miSinai. How do you think you would have reacted to frum Jews wishing for the failure of a loving marriage because of an "intermarriage" between a Jewish man and a sincere non-Orthodox Jewish convert?

GLOSSARY

kiruv: Jewish outreach
Taryag mitzvot: Taryag (Tav Resh Yud Gimel) is the Hebrew numeral for 613, the number of mitzvot (commandments) in the Torah.

[theflipflop]

I was raised ultra-reform, and my parents had the wisdom to teach me that interfaith marriage was unacceptable. But sadly that wasn't enough, as their other kids still married goyim. Without a foundation in Torah, there is nothing to stop a Jew from marrying a goy.