Long ago on independence square (Union, Lexington: houses, neighborhood, high school)

[MRG Dallas]

HAPPY NEW YEAR to ALL Let's hope and pray that 2022 is both prosperous and healthy for all of us

January 2 is a significant date On this date, 37 years ago I said goodbye to my beloved hometown and hopped on I-35 for the ten plus+ hour drive to Dallas to start a new career. On Jan. 2s before that, one grandfather died on this date, and the one who lived in Independence, his funeral was this date (Carson's)

It is also my birthday. Speaking of, the year before my birth, (per Polk's) my parents lived in a house on Pendleton, the portion which extended south on the eastern border of church property. (Hmmm, I have done the 9-month math!) That block is no longer there, replaced by parking lots

"The area around the Auditorium looked less built-out than I remember it as a child as well. Is my memory playing tricks on me, or what?"

No tricks. I can speak for the south Maple side, across from where my grandparents (and Mom for a while) lived. There used to be some grand old homes that filled that area, now demolished. You could now sit on that porch and look directly at church property. One of my buddies lived in the first floor on one house, three stories, with a huge beautiful front porch. Not sure what the policy was to destroy those old homes since there is nothing there now.

I imagine all of us graduated in the Auditorium, save for MarketEl. The Auditorium was the only place in the area that could accommodate classes of 400-600 graduates and their families. That is the only time I recall being inside.

I did play pick up baseball on "The Campus" dmouse, anyone . . . was that part of church property and is it still there?

[dmouse]

Originally Posted by MRG Dallas

HAPPY NEW YEAR to ALL Let's hope and pray that 2022 is both prosperous and healthy for all of us

January 2 is a significant date On this date, 37 years ago I said goodbye to my beloved hometown and hopped on I-35 for the ten plus+ hour drive to Dallas to start a new career. On Jan. 2s before that, one grandfather died on this date, and the one who lived in Independence, his funeral was this date (Carson's)

It is also my birthday. Speaking of, the year before my birth, (per Polk's) my parents lived in a house on Pendleton, the portion which extended south on the eastern border of church property. (Hmmm, I have done the 9-month math!) That block is no longer there, replaced by parking lots

"The area around the Auditorium looked less built-out than I remember it as a child as well. Is my memory playing tricks on me, or what?"

No tricks. I can speak for the south Maple side, across from where my grandparents (and Mom for a while) lived. There used to be some grand old homes that filled that area, now demolished. You could now sit on that porch and look directly at church property. One of my buddies lived in the first floor on one house, three stories, with a huge beautiful front porch. Not sure what the policy was to destroy those old homes since there is nothing there now.

I imagine all of us graduated in the Auditorium, save for MarketEl. The Auditorium was the only place in the area that could accommodate classes of 400-600 graduates and their families. That is the only time I recall being inside.

I did play pick up baseball on "The Campus" dmouse, anyone . . . was that part of church property and is it still there?

The campus is still there; I played many a softball game there. It is still Church property.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by dmouse

The Auditorium construction was started in 1926. Construction was gradual and paused at times due to the depression and WW2. The dome is copper, and the story goes that it was painted green so as to not be a target should the war ever get this far. There is room for a 2 story house between the ceiling of the main chamber, and the outside copper 'roof'. (I once had the privilege of standing on the top 'button' of the dome, and I'll never forget it.) Completion was in 1952, although finishing touches continued.( It was completely debt free at that time.) For instance, the terrazzo floors throughout the building, and the organ were installed during my younger years.



The Stone Church was built in the 1880's, and was never the Church headquarters. It has always been an active congregation of the RLDS-Community of Christ Church. (The Mrs. and I were married there in 1973.)


The Temple was built here as part of a Divine inspiration given to Joseph Smith. (Brigham Young split off and headed west. Joseph Smith did NOT found the Mormon Church!) When the time came for construction, the Church requested a shape found in nature. Architect Gyo Obata chose the shape of the chambered nautilus, creating a shape rising to a central spire which seems to 'go on forever'. The building is a masterpiece which could not have been built before the computer age, due to its design.


Both the Auditorium and the Temple are known for their world class pipe organs. I was lucky enough to have many hours of practice time on the Auditorium Organ.


I hope this helps.

It sure does. Your history of the Auditorium's construction especially helps me understand why it is basically Art Deco in form but has a Midcentury Modern main entrance.

But as for Joseph Smith's role in the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Mormon temple in Philadelphia — which I got to tour before it was consecrated — has in its baptism room a mural depicting the Susquehanna River valley in northeast Pennsylvania, where Smith was baptized a few years after he had the vision in upstate New York that led him to establish what he first called the Church of Christ then later gave the name it's had ever since, (Wikipedia article on Joseph Smith)

So — unless you are stating that Joseph Smith's church is the one headquartered in Independence and the LDS Church we know now is an offshoot — I don't understand how you can say that Smith didn't found the Mormon Church. (He did discover the Book of Mormon, didn't he?)

So where was the RLDS Church's headquarters before the construction of the Auditorium, and did it have a Temple (a la the one for the Mormons in SLC) before the new Temple was built?

If I haven't said so yet, that Temple is a magnificent structure, and I like the way the nautilus gets expressed as its spire.

Edited to add a postscript: I'll wager that story about painting the copper roof is apocryphal. Copper turns green naturally when it oxidizes. And copper that hasn't been alloyed or covered with some sort of protective coating will oxidize.

[MRG Dallas]

Originally Posted by pearjas

Happy New Year!!
I recently ran into this public photo album that was posted on Facebook that shows the construction for the RLDS, the houses that were there beforehand, etc. Virtually every vantagepoint around. It's quite an amazing collection and must have cost a fortune on film!!

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1403635&type=3

Great find, pearjas, and a Very Happy New Year to you. Always glad to see you post here

MAD, pearjas, dmouse, anyone . . . I have difficulty determining the directional aspects of the photos. Can anyone ID if at all, Pendleton? I see one where Crysler and Lexington intersect, but am not familiar with sides other than Maples. Help, TIA

[dmouse]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

It sure does. Your history of the Auditorium's construction especially helps me understand why it is basically Art Deco in form but has a Midcentury Modern main entrance.

But as for Joseph Smith's role in the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Mormon temple in Philadelphia — which I got to tour before it was consecrated — has in its baptism room a mural depicting the Susquehanna River valley in northeast Pennsylvania, where Smith was baptized a few years after he had the vision in upstate New York that led him to establish what he first called the Church of Christ then later gave the name it's had ever since, (Wikipedia article on Joseph Smith)

So — unless you are stating that Joseph Smith's church is the one headquartered in Independence and the LDS Church we know now is an offshoot — I don't understand how you can say that Smith didn't found the Mormon Church. (He did discover the Book of Mormon, didn't he?)

So where was the RLDS Church's headquarters before the construction of the Auditorium, and did it have a Temple (a la the one for the Mormons in SLC) before the new Temple was built?

If I haven't said so yet, that Temple is a magnificent structure, and I like the way the nautilus gets expressed as its spire.

Edited to add a postscript: I'll wager that story about painting the copper roof is apocryphal. Copper turns green naturally when it oxidizes. And copper that hasn't been alloyed or covered with some sort of protective coating will oxidize.

Yes, I am stating that the Church in Independence is the one established originally by Smith. He received Divine guidance and discovered the 'golden plates' from which he translated the Book of Mormon. 'Mormon' has nothing to do with the RLDS/Community of Christ church other than we use it as one of our three standard books: Bible, Book of Mormon, and Doctrine & Covenants. I believe the Mormon Church also believes in the Book of Mormon. Todays Mormon church is what the splinter faction led by Brigham Young has grown into. IT is the offshoot.


The RLDS/COC had one Temple which was in Kirtland, Ohio.



In those days, the Church moved around a bit and thus, so did its headquarters.


Now, something I really don't know that much about to pass on: at one time, the Federal Courts ruled that Joseph Smith established the 'true' church, and the off shoot did not, because they followed many practices and beliefs other than those of Joseph's church.


If you are ever able, you should tour the Temple. The view up inside the spire from the main sanctuary will knock your socks off!


Lastly, don't believe everything on Wikipedia. Half of the stuff on there is crap!

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by dmouse

If you are ever able, you should tour the Temple. The view up inside the spire from the main sanctuary will knock your socks off!

That's one BIG difference between the Community of Christ and the LDS Church: the former allows even those who do not follow its tenets into its holiest places. Once consecrated, Mormon temples are off-limits to non-Mormons (and even to Mormons who can't get a "temple recommend" from their local bishop due to some moral failing or other).

I do plan to return home this year sometime (American Airlines is paying for the trip because I let AA bump me off my return flight from Miami to Philadelphia coming back from San Juan). I think I will take you up on that recommendation. Anything I need to know about visiting hours?

Lastly, don't believe everything on Wikipedia. Half of the stuff on there is crap!

Hi, occasional Wikipedia editor here. (Also marketstel on Wikipedia)

Yes, you can find lots of inaccurate or poorly sourced/edited material on the Internet's leading reference work. Even more common are the articles that are basically "stubs," which contain little to no useful or enlightening information. But I think the thing that's more amazing is how much of that crowdsourced information is accurate and correct.

[dmouse]

Sorry, I have no idea as to hours or visiting, especially with the covid stuff. I imagine we can find out for you if the time approaches.


Would love to have you see it though!

[Mad Anthonie]

Originally Posted by MRG Dallas

Great find, pearjas, and a Very Happy New Year to you. Always glad to see you post here

MAD, pearjas, dmouse, anyone . . . I have difficulty determining the directional aspects of the photos. Can anyone ID if at all, Pendleton? I see one where Crysler and Lexington intersect, but am not familiar with sides other than Maples. Help, TIA

I'll take a gander at them this week. If'n my feeble memory is functional I should be able to find Pendleton.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by dmouse

The Temple was built here as part of a Divine inspiration given to Joseph Smith. (Brigham Young split off and headed west. Joseph Smith did NOT found the Mormon Church!)

That's utter nonsense and everyone who reads this should know it.

[Mad Anthonie]

Originally Posted by Mad Anthonie

I'll take a gander at them this week. If'n my feeble memory is functional I should be able to find Pendleton.

This week has arrived!


Looking south along Union from near Lexington. The Campus fields are in the distance across Walnut.


https://www.facebook.com/HistoricInd...19806731394199


Looking east along Kansas from near River. Union is the first cross street. The houses showing their backsides are along Pendleton, as are the next row facing the camera.


https://www.facebook.com/HistoricInd...19829401391932


Union is the street nearest the camera. The next row of houses on the right half are along Pendleton.


https://www.facebook.com/HistoricInd...19860471388825


Again Union is the nearby street, Pendelton behind it.


https://www.facebook.com/HistoricInd...19860574722148


Looking across Walnut to Union and then Pendleton.


https://www.facebook.com/HistoricInd...19929018048637


Looking south on Pendleton from Lexington. The LDS church is across Walnut at the bottom of the hill where the WCHS Jr High kids used to play during P.E.



https://www.facebook.com/HistoricInd...20077584700447
https://www.facebook.com/HistoricInd...20077661367106


Union is near, Pendleton next.


https://www.facebook.com/HistoricInd...20093871365485


Enjoy!