KC's anti urban/city mentaility

[TabulaRasa]

Originally Posted by s.davis

This is patently, demonstrably false. KC proper is served by something like 13 different school districts, including some of the highest performing districts and individual schools in the state.

Even KCPSD has options (albeit, slim) for excellent local public schools at the elementary and middle/high school level in the urban core.

Eh...technically true, but "KC proper is served by something like 13 different school districts," is also somewhat misleading.

People dwelling within KC city limits are in fact served by SIXTEEN different public school districts - some of them, like Lee's Summit, Park Hill, Liberty, North Kansas City, quite good. But the reality is that the vast, vast majority of KCMO addresses, and certainly those in the urban core, are served by three districts - KCMO SD, Center SD, and Hickman Mills SD. One in serious trouble, the other two better performing, but still inner city schools with inner city issues and nothing to speak of that anybody who knows anything about education would call bragging rights.

Because KC's gerrymandered sprawl has created lots of weird fingers of annexed land, yep, there are various far-flung, but still KCMO addresses that fall within the jurisdiction of school districts like Lee's Summit, Grandview, Platte Co, Park Hill, etc. There aren't LOTS, but yes, you might have a KCMO address, and luck out and go to say, Liberty public schools (on the other side of things, you might have a KCMO address and go to Grandview Schools, which is nearly a draw, quality-wise).

But let's not pretend that if you buy a home in a semi-rural, horse stable-laden subdivision out by Truman Medical Center - Lakewood that happens to fall into a sliver of land annexed by KCMO, and your kids go to Lee's Summit schools, you are living "in the city."

It's rather misleading, especially for folks not from the area who are getting job offers, looking at moving to town, and don't know the geography well, etc., to say, "Oh, you have lots of options for public schools, more than a dozen different great public school districts to choose from within city limits!" Yes, technically true. But for people who are looking at living in the urban core of KCMO, they realistically have three (maybe four, if you count the northland KCMO addresses served by North Kansas City School District) public school districts serving the vast geographic majority of the city center from which to choose.

[westender]

Let me clarify my "move anywhere" remark.

I mean that a family from outside the metro cannot simply choose any neighborhood based on the neighborhood's physical attributes (housing, location, density, etc.) and know that the schools will be competent. There are beautiful, well-to-do neighborhoods in KC with horrible schools.

Yes, there are neighborhoods in the northland that have great schools and are within city limits. I was trying to point out the inverse of that situation, not to question the fact that the northland has great schools.

The problem is that the wide variation in school quality is driving much of the in-migration growth patterns. Rather than letting the city drive growth (jobs, density, transportation, urban planning), Kansas City has inhibited growth in the vast central areas of the city with poor schools and the KCMSD is IMHO largely responsible for that.

[kcmo]

Originally Posted by TabulaRasa

Eh...technically true, but "KC proper is served by something like 13 different school districts," is also somewhat misleading.

People dwelling within KC city limits are in fact served by SIXTEEN different public school districts - some of them, like Lee's Summit, Park Hill, Liberty, North Kansas City, quite good. But the reality is that the vast, vast majority of KCMO addresses, and certainly those in the urban core, are served by three districts - KCMO SD, Center SD, and Hickman Mills SD. One in serious trouble, the other two better performing, but still inner city schools with inner city issues and nothing to speak of that anybody who knows anything about education would call bragging rights.

Because KC's gerrymandered sprawl has created lots of weird fingers of annexed land, yep, there are various far-flung, but still KCMO addresses that fall within the jurisdiction of school districts like Lee's Summit, Grandview, Platte Co, Park Hill, etc. There aren't LOTS, but yes, you might have a KCMO address, and luck out and go to say, Liberty public schools (on the other side of things, you might have a KCMO address and go to Grandview Schools, which is nearly a draw, quality-wise).

But let's not pretend that if you buy a home in a semi-rural, horse stable-laden subdivision out by Truman Medical Center - Lakewood that happens to fall into a sliver of land annexed by KCMO, and your kids go to Lee's Summit schools, you are living "in the city."

It's rather misleading, especially for folks not from the area who are getting job offers, looking at moving to town, and don't know the geography well, etc., to say, "Oh, you have lots of options for public schools, more than a dozen different great public school districts to choose from within city limits!" Yes, technically true. But for people who are looking at living in the urban core of KCMO, they realistically have three (maybe four, if you count the northland KCMO addresses served by North Kansas City School District) public school districts serving the vast geographic majority of the city center from which to choose.

I think it all depends on where the person is looking. If a person is looking for a home "in the city", then there are few options. But at the same time people looking to live in the suburbs needs to know that a Kansas City, MO address with a NE or NW prefix is no different than a Gladstone, Liberty or Parkville address. I would guess that over half the population of KCMO lives within the boundaries of districts other than KCMO and Center. Almost 200k of KCMO's residents live in Clay and Platte County. That's a suburb the size of Overland Park. Probably another 100k live in Raytown, Indepedence, Lee's Summit, Grandview etc. So it's a sizable amount of the population. But if you want to live "in the city", you really have some major issues with public schools to deal with. It's too bad Brookside doesn't have neighbors schools anymore. The district ruined the schools there due to racial crap. So instead of fixing the schools in the poor areas of the city, the district ruined the schools in the affluent parts and brought it all down to the same level. Much can be blamed on the desegregation lawsuits and federal government requiring KC to deseg, but that's all over now. At least fix the schools that can be fixed (brookside, plaza etc) and let gentrification take it from there.

[TabulaRasa]

Originally Posted by kcmo

I think it all depends on where the person is looking...But if you want to live "in the city", you really have some major issues with public schools to deal with.

And this is precisely my point. It's disingenuous for anybody to ignore that reality, and say, "Oh, not at all...you can live in the city and have your pick of 16 different school districts!" Realistically, you can't, most likely, if by "in the city," you mean living in the central core... not some northland sprawl or Martin City or Lakewood Lakes, etc.

We'll get people on here who are of the "My spouse just got a job at KU Med, we want to live in a walkable urban area near independent shops and restaurants, we prefer city to suburb, want to live near work, we have kids, where should we look?" persuasion. For them, the "You have your choice of sixteen different districts, some of them acclaimed!" advice doesn't really apply. They're most likely looking at private or charter schooling, no matter what. While it's great that over a dozen districts serve a wide swath of technically-KC addresses, that doesn't really help people who want to work in the urban core and live there with their families, so much.

[westender]

Originally Posted by TabulaRasa

We'll get people on here who are of the "My spouse just got a job at KU Med, we want to live in a walkable urban area near independent shops and restaurants, we prefer city to suburb, want to live near work, we have kids, where should we look?" persuasion. For them, the "You have your choice of sixteen different districts, some of them acclaimed!" advice doesn't really apply. They're most likely looking at private or charter schooling, no matter what. While it's great that over a dozen districts serve a wide swath of technically-KC addresses, that doesn't really help people who want to work in the urban core and live there with their families, so much.

This is what I was also trying to convey. Lots of posts on city-data.com ask specifically where new residents might live in the 'urban core' of Kansas City. Then after a few pages of comments about how great the Plaza or Volker or Brookside is, it comes out that they have a half dozen kids and naturally expect them to attend safe and highly-rated public schools. This is pretty commonplace elsewhere in the US. Most cities have decent schools in the decent neighborhoods (Denver East, Minneapolis Southwest, Tribeca/UES/ UWS in NYC, East Rock in New Haven, etc.)

Not Kansas City. Almost all of the dense, urban areas in KC are located in the geographic boundaries of the KCMSD, which has notoriously bad schools. And its school board has stubbornly resisted modest changes toward improvement for decades. Then there is the requisite conversation with the new families: do you want to risk a lottery or pay tuition for a private or parochial school, etc., etc. One solution: Kansas City could dissolve the KCMSD and grant full local school control to its neighborhoods.

[TabulaRasa]

It's another discussion for another thread, but I've already been fairly vocal that I don't see that particular suggestion solving the major issues plaguing inner city schools. But this is because while you are attributing the state of public schools in the inner city district solely to the action/inaction of the board of education, I'm looking at other factors, factors that won't change if the school board were dissolved and each neighborhood ran schools with individual neighborhood boards. There's a lot more going on than the organization of the oversight, as with all inner city schools.

But that's all I'm going to say on it, and not continue it as a thread of conversation on this particular discussion topic, because it's veering offtopic. To bring things more fully back on topic, IMO, many of the complaints/anti-urban sentiments leveled at KC as a city can be distilled down to matters of taste...some people just don't like urban environments, it's not their cup of tea. It is what it is. But one really valid, objective, not-a-matter-of-opinion/taste issue that will continue to come up is how the core of the city is served by very poorly performing, and in some cases, unaccredited schools. That's one legitimate, valid criticism of KC that boils down to something other than individual preference. It's by far KC's biggest weakness, IMO, and something that gives the anti-urban/anti-KC crowd at least one sufficient leg to stand on.