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This forum pretty much mirrors KC and is reverting back to having an anti urban / pro johnson county bla bla bla. I don't really even visit anymore and will do so less and less frequently, which I'm sure the KS side people will love.
There are just too many other cities with more vibrant and progressive attitudes toward urban development and regional cooperation and pride. Despite KC having this odd mentality, the city does have a decent urban core for those looking for such a lifestyle but KC feels almost dead compared to most cities because so many metro area residents avoid urban KCMO. In most major cities, there are just people everywhere in urban areas all the time and many are from the suburbs. Going downtown or into urban neighborhoods for dining, entertainment, recreation and culture is very much a "positive" thing for most cities and people love to do it and it shows by how active the parks are, how busy the streets and sidewalks and even how people speak about the "city" socially. The city is a place people like even if they live in the suburbs. Most people I talk to in almost any metro would like to live in in the city if they could and many are jealous of those that do.
But in KC it's all about how the suburbs are better, not how the suburbs and city compliment each other. I know I would never move back to KC. KC is trying but I'm not sure it will ever overcome the regional anti city mentality that is so prevalent there which is really too bad because KC really does have so much to offer. It really could be more than just a bunch of suburbs with a few pockets of relatively modest urban activity that most of the metro shuns. People will rip on KCMO for using incentives to build urban projects, but then won't say a word when twice the incentives are used to build on suburban fields. Incidents such as those at the plaza or zoo are blown out of proportion and will ultimately create negative images for a lot of people, justified or not.
I don't get KC and never will, but the more I travel, the more I see that despite all of what KC has accomplished, the city is still way behind when it comes to urban revitalization and the gap may even be still widening. If that metro EVER gets on the same page, it would be one of the most amazing mid sized big cities in the country rather than just getting by with bare minimum regional efforts and being so afraid of change or investing in infrastructure, especially anything "urban". I guess it will happen eventually, everything in KC takes a VERY long time.
I agree the KC has too much suburban vs urban animosity, but I don't agree that we are unique in facing this problem - it exists in all cities - especially our peer cities (to me it seems even worse in STL). Yes, in cities like DC, Seattle, SF, etc. it isn't as prevalent as KC, but those are not our peers and don't make a fair comparison.
I do think the state line can make issues worse in the metro, adding one more layer to the us vs. them mentality.
I find the anti-city mentality to be much more prevalent in online comments than in the real world (though I'll admit, I live in a bubble living and working in the city and rarely spending time in the 'burbs). I also think it is much more prevalent in the older generations (consider the age of the anti-KCMO posters here) and it is a sentiment that is fading away.
I think living in DC and viewing the attitudes in KC through the prism on online discussions has warped your viewpoint a bit.
This forum pretty much mirrors KC and is reverting back to having an anti urban / pro johnson county bla bla bla. I don't really even visit anymore and will do so less and less frequently, which I'm sure the KS side people will love.
There are just too many other cities with more vibrant and progressive attitudes toward urban development and regional cooperation and pride. Despite KC having this odd mentality, the city does have a decent urban core for those looking for such a lifestyle but KC feels almost dead compared to most cities because so many metro area residents avoid urban KCMO. In most major cities, there are just people everywhere in urban areas all the time and many are from the suburbs. Going downtown or into urban neighborhoods for dining, entertainment, recreation and culture is very much a "positive" thing for most cities and people love to do it and it shows by how active the parks are, how busy the streets and sidewalks and even how people speak about the "city" socially. The city is a place people like even if they live in the suburbs. Most people I talk to in almost any metro would like to live in in the city if they could and many are jealous of those that do.
But in KC it's all about how the suburbs are better, not how the suburbs and city compliment each other. I know I would never move back to KC. KC is trying but I'm not sure it will ever overcome the regional anti city mentality that is so prevalent there which is really too bad because KC really does have so much to offer. It really could be more than just a bunch of suburbs with a few pockets of relatively modest urban activity that most of the metro shuns. People will rip on KCMO for using incentives to build urban projects, but then won't say a word when twice the incentives are used to build on suburban fields. Incidents such as those at the plaza or zoo are blown out of proportion and will ultimately create negative images for a lot of people, justified or not.
I don't get KC and never will, but the more I travel, the more I see that despite all of what KC has accomplished, the city is still way behind when it comes to urban revitalization and the gap may even be still widening. If that metro EVER gets on the same page, it would be one of the most amazing mid sized big cities in the country rather than just getting by with bare minimum regional efforts and being so afraid of change or investing in infrastructure, especially anything "urban". I guess it will happen eventually, everything in KC takes a VERY long time.
Goodbye cruel, cruel Kansas City forum message board for not being what I know you can be .
You do realize that there have been about a dozen projects announced for the downtown, urban core in the last few months? The Cordish tower is breaking ground now, as I type. The PnL tower is under contract for a $60m conversion to apartments. The Folgers building is being converted to lofts. There is a $120m project by an Indianapolis developer for apartments in Quality Hill and Crossroads West. There is a hotel being built right now in the Crossroads and another one proposed for 20th/Main. Total proposed, and in process of being developed are a total of 3,875 units in the urban core, which would add about 6,000 new residents downtown. But you're right, nothing to see here and nobody cares about the urban core.
LOL, spoken like someone who hasn't been near KC in a long time. Talk to someone under the age of 40 in KC sometime. Even 30 year old suburbanites in Lenexa grasp what's going on in downtown.
Hopefully younger people will have a different mentality. But growing up in JoCo, urban KCMO and downtown were always perceived as dangerous places to avoid.
I agree with KCMO that the metro area, overall, is still anti-urban. I think it was on this forum recently where I read a post from someone who said they wanted an Applebees downtown and more chain stores lol!
Plus I can't believe that since I left KC in 1986, the downtown skyline really hasn't changed. Yes, the arena and new PAC are cool and add something, but no skyscrapers. When I come back to KC, I feel like I went back in time.
Hopefully younger people will have a different mentality. But growing up in JoCo, urban KCMO and downtown were always perceived as dangerous places to avoid.
I agree with KCMO that the metro area, overall, is still anti-urban. I think it was on this forum recently where I read a post from someone who said they wanted an Applebees downtown and more chain stores lol!
Plus I can't believe that since I left KC in 1986, the downtown skyline really hasn't changed. Yes, the arena and new PAC are cool and add something, but no skyscrapers. When I come back to KC, I feel like I went back in time.
For what it's worth, the Denver downtown hasn't changed much since the late 1980's (height wise), except for a few new hotels being built recently. And yes, I have been to Denver on numerous occasions, just recently in March.
For what it's worth, the Denver downtown hasn't changed much since the late 1980's (height wise), except for a few new hotels being built recently. And yes, I have been to Denver on numerous occasions, just recently in March.
You are kidding right? Denver's skyline may not be much higher, but it has built up drastically with buildings under 40 stories with dozens of buildings over 15 floors going up. I have a client out there that do photos for, trust me. No comparison.
KC's skyline has not changed. The PAC and Sprint Center are still surrounded by under utilized parking, vacant lots etc which is crazy. I know about the hotels and those are great but come on. KC is not Omaha or OKC and a 25 story condo tower and ten story hotel every decade is not exactly robust growth.
I don't compare KC to DC or even Seattle or Atlanta or Dallas or Minneapolis all cities that have simply moved far from KC's tier of cities. I do try to compare KC to metros of below 3 million though and that includes Denver, St Louis, Austin, Charlotte, Portland and KC is a slow growth place, which is fine, but 95% of that growth is still suburban.
I know about the latest plan for the P&L tower. I actually emailed the guy doing the P&L Tower, I know him personally. KC desperately needs a local developer like that to step up because there are so few there now that will do anything but developed subsidized suburban developments.
Do you realize that the cordish tower was proposed in 2007? Do you have any idea how many cities have proposed and built and gone on to build additional phases of light rail in the time that KC has put together the 2 mile streetcar line? Do you realize how many cities have thought about and then proceeded to build convention hotels while KC ponders the "idea" for twice the time and continues to fall further and further down the convention tiers of cities because they can't offer a full convention package? By the time KC has enough hotel rooms, the convention center will need to be remodeled and the city will study that for another ten years till they fall behind on something else. Why even build the ballroom if the city can't pull off a hotel to go along with it?
Even places like Cincinnati, Pittsburgh and Baltimore have built major corporate HQ towers in recent years. There have been a few major towers go up for companies in Baltimore. Another one is breaking ground for a local company. Baltimore has a 45 story and two 30 condo towers UC and plenty of KC type reuse of old buildings going on. And Baltimore is a slow growth city. Where is KC's corporate community? They sure as hell are not downtown. Can KC get a least one or two companies interested in the city?
Rather than look at places like Denver and Minneapolis, it's always, well, St Louis is worse. Not so sure about that. While their downtown is not as residential as KC's, they have more viable urban neighborhoods, light rail and downtown StL IS quickly closing the gap.
All I'm saying is that KC has a suburban mentality. That's not to say that there are not tons of very urban minded passionate living in KC's urban core. I think you took that personally. But the metro area as a whole and the business community as a whole generally ignores the urban core compared to almost every major city I visit and I visit a LOT of cities every year.
For what it's worth, the Denver downtown hasn't changed much since the late 1980's (height wise), except for a few new hotels being built recently. And yes, I have been to Denver on numerous occasions, just recently in March.
You are kidding right? Denver's skyline may not be much higher, but it has built up drastically with buildings under 40 stories with dozens of buildings over 15 floors going up. I have a client out there that do photos for, trust me. No comparison.
KC's skyline has not changed. The PAC and Sprint Center are still surrounded by under utilized parking, vacant lots etc which is crazy. I know about the hotels and those are great but come on. KC is not Omaha or OKC and a 25 story condo tower and ten story hotel every decade is not exactly robust growth.
I don't compare KC to DC or even Seattle or Atlanta or Dallas or Minneapolis all cities that have simply moved far from KC's tier of cities. I do try to compare KC to metros of below 3 million though and that includes Denver, St Louis, Austin, Charlotte, Portland and KC is a slow growth place, which is fine, but 95% of that growth is still suburban.
I know about the latest plan for the P&L tower. I actually emailed the guy doing the P&L Tower, I know him personally. KC desperately needs a local developer like that to step up because there are so few there now that will do anything but developed subsidized suburban developments.
Do you realize that the cordish tower was proposed in 2007? Do you have any idea how many cities have proposed and built and gone on to build additional phases of light rail in the time that KC has put together the 2 mile streetcar line? Do you realize how many cities have thought about and then proceeded to build convention hotels while KC ponders the "idea" for twice the time and continues to fall further and further down the convention tiers of cities because they can't offer a full convention package? By the time KC has enough hotel rooms, the convention center will need to be remodeled and the city will study that for another ten years till they fall behind on something else. Why even build the ballroom if the city can't pull off a hotel to go along with it?
Even places like Cincinnati, Pittsburgh and Baltimore have built major corporate HQ towers in recent years. There have been a few major towers go up for companies in Baltimore. Another one is breaking ground for a local company. Baltimore has a 45 story and two 30 condo towers UC and plenty of KC type reuse of old buildings going on. And Baltimore is a slow growth city. Where is KC's corporate community? They sure as hell are not downtown. Can KC get a least one or two companies interested in the city?
Rather than look at places like Denver and Minneapolis, it's always, well, St Louis is worse. Not so sure about that. While their downtown is not as residential as KC's, they have more viable urban neighborhoods, light rail and downtown StL IS quickly closing the gap.
All I'm saying is that KC has a suburban mentality. That's not to say that there are not tons of very urban minded passionate living in KC's urban core. I think you took that personally. But the metro area as a whole and the business community as a whole generally ignores the urban core compared to almost every major city I visit and I visit a LOT of cities every year. Even sprawl cities like Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Phoenix etc have tons of urban development and suburban TOD going on.
Phoeniz urban...haha, now that's a good one. Just because they might be building more (see "sunbelt city"), doesn't make a city urban. You can't replicate a truly urban core or environment by just throwing up some new buildings...
Do you also realize the real estate market crashed right around 2007? The funkhouser didn't help things also, ya know.
I thought KCMO left a long time ago? I sure get tired of his running KCMO into the ground.
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