Some real numbers for KC, not cherry picked. Things could be a lot better for KC's economy (Kansas City: credit, hotel)
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Parkerlewis33 nailed it pretty well. Not much to add to that.
As a born and raised KCMO guy, it's pretty disturbing to know that KC "could" be where Denver is today had it made a lot of different choices because they were equals back in the 1980's. KC really does prove that it doesn't matter if you only have some nice suburbs. If you don't have regional cooperation and regional focus on the urban core to go along with those nice suburbs, then the metropolitan area as a whole will suffer and will not economically compete. Watching so many cities pass up KC (and they continue to do so) is hard for me. Always has been. While KC has a lot going for it, mostly with regards to entertainment options, culture and arts, the way the city packages those attractions (almost no critical mass) destroys the city's ability to feed off those assets and get more out of them than just individual parking lots serving each attraction.
But what is even worse and I gotta say this again, is that the business community has walked away and turned it back on urban KCMO and KCK. I can't say enough how much this has hurt KCMO compared to most peers or cities that were once peers to KC.
spent the weekend in Atlanta for a wedding. Some takeaways:
1. You can have the ATL suburbs....particularly gwinnet county. Overland Park/JOCO is much more walkable and bike able...a lot of the OTP burbs of the ATL have no sidewalks and are windy and difficult to navigate.
2. From midtown to downtown Atlanta blows urban KC out of the water...better restaurants, more ethnic restaurants, better nightlife, and the Centennial Park area offers a good deal for attractions...the $60 ATL pass gets you into the world class aquarium, the Coke museum, the zoo, CNN ect. Having sports downtown makes a big difference too...not sure how the Braves moving out to the burbs affects this.
3. Our arts scene is still way better.
4. Buckhead is developing north of the ATL core, but our plaza still offers more for tourists and pedestrians.
5. If you live or operate Outside the Perimeter to the northeast...getting to ATL airport is just as complicated as getting to kci from Joco. That said, ATL is awesome for food options while you are waiting for your flight...but it is the busiest airport in the world. It really makes kci look incredibly bush league.
6). ATL cares about urban archecture...I really liked the shiny new skyscrapers butted up against old southern gothic homes and bungalows under a heavy forested tree canopy (ATL is virtually in an urban forest). It makes for a stunning landscape, but that creates non-square and less navigable streets.
7) wife and I hiked up stone mountain...we don't have much that rivals that for outdoor activities.
8) traffic sucks almost always in ATL, but it's a small cost to pay for being considered a world class city. Nobody thinks of ATL as cowtown.
I point this out because some people in kc don't care what outsiders think...this is misguided IMO. Perception is everything. If you are perceived as small time and laughable, you will probably become that. I love kc but it needs to step up it's game a bit to attract more top notch jobs, transplants, and companies. Based on recent economic reports we are falling behind in this area...we want a strong economy of bright knowledge workers, and I still think we need to build up the attractiveness of our city to recruit the best.
Another great post! I personally like Atlanta. I visit a few times a year. While Downtown is still pretty much 9-5, Midtown, Buckhead etc more than makes up for it and I think you will start to see a residential boom downtown very soon, if it hasn't already started. Even though the metro is a huge sprawl factory, it still offers a very strong urban core and there is a strong commitment to the urban core by local corporations.
Having said that, It's hard to believe that they are losing the Braves to the northern suburbs. That's a huge step back in my opinion. But still if you want urban, Atlanta does offer some great options. ATL airport is awesome. People in KC hate airports like that, yet they have to fly to them anyway to get to many places outside middle of the country hubs.
Having said that, It's hard to believe that they are losing the Braves to the northern suburbs. That's a huge step back in my opinion. But still if you want urban, Atlanta does offer some great options. ATL airport is awesome. People in KC hate airports like that, yet they have to fly to them anyway to get to many places outside middle of the country hubs.
KCI is okay if you fly a few times a year. If you fly three, four or five times a month (or more), particularly for business, it really sucks...it's just a terrible airport for business travel. There is no reason why a city so convenient and centrally located to most destination in America (quick access to east and west coasts) should not have an airport with multiple options for people who need to get into the airport early in the morning for business travel. I hate the rental car setup with a passion. And the food options...OMG it is hell. The WIFI is so slow...I can rarely VPN into our internal network while in the terminal because it is slow as molasses in January. I gave up on the Economy bus parking scheme a couple years ago; it's a major PITA to wait for old decrepit buses hit 15 parking destinations instead of having a modern and clean tram/shuttle like most real airports...The Parking Spot is decent, though.
KATL is busy but it is travel heaven...so many ammenities! I don't often think of moving out of KC, but the airport is the one reason I do consider moving...it's just to much of a PITA to deal with if you travel for business with any frequency.
Parkerlewis33 nailed it pretty well. Not much to add to that.
As a born and raised KCMO guy, it's pretty disturbing to know that KC "could" be where Denver is today had it made a lot of different choices because they were equals back in the 1980's. KC really does prove that it doesn't matter if you only have some nice suburbs. If you don't have regional cooperation and regional focus on the urban core to go along with those nice suburbs, then the metropolitan area as a whole will suffer and will not economically compete. Watching so many cities pass up KC (and they continue to do so) is hard for me. Always has been. While KC has a lot going for it, mostly with regards to entertainment options, culture and arts, the way the city packages those attractions (almost no critical mass) destroys the city's ability to feed off those assets and get more out of them than just individual parking lots serving each attraction.
But what is even worse and I gotta say this again, is that the business community has walked away and turned it back on urban KCMO and KCK. I can't say enough how much this has hurt KCMO compared to most peers or cities that were once peers to KC.
Denver boomed (and still is) due to the oil industry in the 1980's and the huge influx of California transplants in the 1990's-2000's. With more people, came more development. Pretty easy to figure out kcmo. It's not because KC "made" all these wrong decisions. .
KCI is okay if you fly a few times a year. If you fly three, four or five times a month (or more), particularly for business, it really sucks...it's just a terrible airport for business travel. There is no reason why a city so convenient and centrally located to most destination in America (quick access to east and west coasts) should not have an airport with multiple options for people who need to get into the airport early in the morning for business travel. I hate the rental car setup with a passion. And the food options...OMG it is hell. The WIFI is so slow...I can rarely VPN into our internal network while in the terminal because it is slow as molasses in January. I gave up on the Economy bus parking scheme a couple years ago; it's a major PITA to wait for old decrepit buses hit 15 parking destinations instead of having a modern and clean tram/shuttle like most real airports...The Parking Spot is decent, though.
KATL is busy but it is travel heaven...so many ammenities!
Yep, KC missed that boat. I really do think that MCI could have been what DIA is today and Denver would have the 10-15 million passenger airport instead. KC's location is PERFECT for a national hub and already had the perfect location for a large airport, had the runways, had the local population etc. It just didn't have the terminal. Denver built such a terminal and the rest is history. KCI will never be a hub now.
But I really do hope they bring KCI out of the 1960's. It's a terrible airport, crowded, small, dark, no services, dirty tiny bathrooms etc. I've seen nicer greyhound bus stations.
Most cities want to have lots of flights. Most cities want to leave a good first impression on visitors or even people just passing through. KC just wants to be cheap and preserve that short walk that they "think" they have. (with all the partitions and what not, it's not as easy to get to the gates as people think and it's just as easy to reach the curb).
Yep, KC missed that boat. I really do think that MCI could have been what DIA is today and Denver would have the 10-15 million passenger airport instead. KC's location is PERFECT for a national hub and already had the perfect location for a large airport, had the runways, had the local population etc. It just didn't have the terminal. Denver built such a terminal and the rest is history. KCI will never be a hub now.
But I really do hope they bring KCI out of the 1960's. It's a terrible airport, crowded, small, dark, no services, dirty tiny bathrooms etc. I've seen nicer greyhound bus stations.
Most cities want to have lots of flights. Most cities want to leave a good first impression on visitors or even people just passing through. KC just wants to be cheap and preserve that short walk that they "think" they have. (with all the partitions and what not, it's not as easy to get to the gates as people think and it's just as easy to reach the curb).
So don't come here. Most of the people in Kansas City seem to think our airport is fine and want it left alone. I'd rather fly to/from KCI than LAX any day.
And it's true it's easy to get in and out of. It's easy to get to the gates. It's so much easier than any other airport I've been in. "All the partitions" - what in the hell are you talking about? You go through security and you are inside the "partition" and ready to board your plane. It's easy.
So don't come here. Most of the people in Kansas City seem to think our airport is fine and want it left alone. I'd rather fly to/from KCI than LAX any day.
And it's true it's easy to get in and out of. It's easy to get to the gates. It's so much easier than any other airport I've been in. "All the partitions" - what in the hell are you talking about? You go through security and you are inside the "partition" and ready to board your plane. It's easy.
The partitions are an issue...the gates are all separated from the ammenities...and if you have to change planes in KC it is especially difficult. The simple matter is do we want to make this airport convenient for residents or more suitable to connecting and non-O&D traffic. This is where KC missed the boat. Catering only to residents doesn't bring out-of-town dollars into the community...frankly, that is the most important thing, and it is what separates major-league cities from those that aren't...the ability to leverage as many of their advantages as possible to bring more wealth to a region. As long as KC residents fail to understand that, this metro will lag behind major-league cities.
I don't understand why some people in KC don't want their town to be looked upon favorably by people that really matter: tourists and media.
Last edited by KC_Sleuth; 07-22-2014 at 08:33 AM..
You mention tourist and media....you really think a family isn't going to visit KC because of its airport? KC isn't really on most peoples radar as a place to spend a vacation, except those that live in a 500 mile radius (i.e. Wichita, Omaha, Des Moine, Springfield and all the thousands of small towns in the mid-west). I doubt too many people from the East or West coasts visit KC except for seeing family/friends.
I'm fine with building a new terminal or renovating, I really have no fight in it, but lets not go overboard. There are a lot of crappy airports in this country and a lot of nice airports. Whenever I travel, I could care less, I just want to get the heck out of the airport asap and onto my destination.
Denver boomed (and still is) due to the oil industry in the 1980's and the huge influx of California transplants in the 1990's-2000's. With more people, came more development. Pretty easy to figure out kcmo. It's not because KC "made" all these wrong decisions. .
Come on. You can’t be serious. Why people in KC make SO MANY excuses for everything is beyond me.
I’m not just talking physical size of the metro (population) but much of Denver’s growth can be attributed to its quality of life and desirability and much of that has to do with how the city decided to invest in its city and make it a wildly popular city for younger people, relocating businesses etc.
Denver was not always like that. Denver used to be just that city people had to use to get to the Rockies. Now it’s a destination within itself for tourists and permanent residents and it has an allure that KC does not have. People still don’t have a clue about KC, here is a link to one example of hundreds you can find where KC just has not marketed itself well to outsiders and so imagination runs wild and there is very little allure to move to or visit KC.
Denver changed its image by making downtown a priority, making the city well known for its walkability, transit, bike trails etc, making the city a major air hub, making the city a major convention destination and other things that bring “positive” attention to the city.
But you are right. KC wouldn’t be a different tier of city today if it didn’t:
Build a downtown ballpark which would have triggered other urban development like hotels (much needed) or justified light rail that could be used for other needs and events. The stadium locations in KC have done nothing to create urban synergy.
Build the starter line of light rail from downtown to the plaza in the 90’s. There would probably be at least one extension by now as well and all the transit oriented development that might have occurred by now in places such as midtown or even in the near suburbs.
Build some sort of commuter rail. KC has more RR right of way than almost any other metro yet has only studied the idea since the early 1980’s. Meanwhile, cities that started looking at commuter rail in the 90’s have systems in place today (Nashville, Austin, Orlando, Albuquerque, Minneapolis etc.). One main reason to do this is not just for commuters but to make the metro feel like one metro. Connect the suburbs to the city in a way that gives suburbanites pride in visiting the city. I have ridden all the above systems and it's incredible how having a direct rail connection changes the mentality of suburban residents.
Replace Kemper “before” every single convention, concert and sporting event left or bypassed KC for other places. Sprint Center is doing well (for not having a sports team), but the city lost probably a decade of positive eco activity by throwing money at a dead arena in a terrible location and it’s still paying for it.
Ignored the fact that KCI’s terminals were wasting the airport’s ability to become far more important to the city’s economy and giving the city more flight options. There is a reason so many airlines “tried” to make KC a hub. Location, Location, Location, not to mention an air field with all kinds of excess capacity, but the terminal has always been the major thing holding KCI back. Even though KCI still needs a terminal, it’s too late now to really take KCI to the next level, but it could have been if KC took some chances and dealt with the terminal properly. 500 million has already been spent on “renovating” those terminals and now KC residents want to spend another 500-700 million and it will still be the same. Will KC do what it likes to do and spend that money and THEN realize they need to replace it? That way in ten years when KC is forced to replace the terminal, the city is paying for the new one and the one they need to tear down. (like what may likely happen with Kauffman Stadium and did happen with Kemper arena) or how the city (and state) finally figured out it needed to replace the Paseo Bridge right after renovating it.
Not building the roof for Arrowhead during the renovations. I like Arrowhead the way it is, but KC really missed an opportunity to get some serious national exposure by saying no to huge national events including the Final Four and Superbowl. Hosting such events would give the city more reasons to build transit and hotels as well, showing the country that KC can host major events and then the city can seriously go after events like the World Cup, National political events etc that are really out of reach now because of KC’s lack of transit and urban core hotels.
Not finding a way to get a new convention hotel downtown. What is the point of building the ballroom and expanding the convention center if you are not going to address the hotel situation. How can KC compete when it only has a couple thousand downtown hotel rooms when its competitors have 4-6k rooms? Yet even though every city has more rooms than KC, nearly all of them have built major hotels to complement their convention centers in much less time than KC has been studying the idea. KC is now like a 4th or 5th tier convention city when it used to be a 3rd or even 2nd tier. Again, this all ties together. Fewer conventions, less need for transit, less need for air travel, less exposure of the “real” Kansas City to outsiders.
Not building up the river front, or a regional bike and trail system to address KC’s ridiculous lack of urban recreation. How can a city with so many parks, so many boulevards, two major rivers, plus river valleys be so void of recreation compared to almost every city out there of any size? KC is just now starting to piece together some suburban trails, urban trails and dedicated bike lanes are still way behind. Sure KC has them, but compared to most places KC is really far behind. These “little things” add up.
The local business community not having any interest in the “city”. KC would be a different city today if just a few of the fast growing companies of the metro chose downtown instead of subsidized suburban office parks. I won’t even name companies, there are just too many. But had just a few of KC’s companies committed to or remained downtown, there would be new skyscrapers downtown filled with many employees that would also live downtown. Sure many people making their way to all these suburban jobs still try and live downtown. But it would be a MUCH greater percent if the actual companies were there or even if there was some sort or regional transit.
KCK putting all of its eggs into suburban sprawl. The city basically built a suburb and ignored its central city (along with the KS side business and even federal government community). If moving the EPA (one of the most pro urban, pro transit gov agencies) to a sprawling Lenexa office park in a far corner of a the metro not accessible by transit is not an example of what is wrong with KC then I don’t know what is. Maybe if KCK had done SOMETHING with downtown, maybe they could have at least kept the EPA let alone attract a private company. The Cerner buildings, tbones, sporting KC along with some retail and apartments could have turned the other side of the river from a joke to a destination creating more critical mass and connectivity to KCMO and again justifying transit, downtown hotels and residential and recreational improvements. With nobody in downtown KCK, why would anybody visit Kaw Point or make an effort to build levee trails to connect Kaw point to Berkley Park in KCMO? No matter what people in KC think, Village West does not impress people from other large cities or the coasts.
Any of these by themselves is probably not a huge deal, but collectively they are very much a big deal.
And KC continues to make these little mistakes that add up. An affiliated NYC history museum on 135th Street? What other metro would locate such an attraction in such a place? The ONLY reason it's there is so the entire development can quality for STAR bonds. In order to get state tax payers to fund a retail center, they threw in a "museum".
Every retail development in the metro subsidized by tax payers and they are all in suburban greenfields. It just contributes to sprawl and urban decay and that tax money could be going to fund other things (trails, schools, transit etc).
A 1980’s style 16,000 employee campus for Cerner that has zero mixed use elements? KC is way too small of a metro for all of its companies to be in locations like this. Seattle can absorb Microsoft being out in a suburban campus because they have more than enough companies downtown to make up for it. Different story for KC.
Then you compare KC to what Denver has done over the same 20-30 year period. Hmm.
There are lots of great things about KC, but KC has and continues to make a ton of mistakes and numbers show that KC could be doing much better. KC should be compared to places like Denver and Dallas, not just rust belt cities. KC should be more economically vibrant today and it should have more going on in the city today than it does.
Status quo mentality is still alive and well though.
Look at this picture of downtown Denver in 1978 below compared to the current skyline. KC's skyline at that time blew Denver away. Of course soon after this was the oil boom and skyscraper boom in Denver.
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