Missouri public schools. Are kids really getting the education people think they are? (St. Louis: law, buses)

[luzianne]

Originally Posted by kcmo

Maybe Samantha is right. KS schools might be better than MO schools...

I told ya when I first "met" ya that I grew up in Johnson County, moved to Missouri after college because I couldn't afford to live in Johnson County, but made darn sure I was back in Johnson County/Shawnee Mission School District once the first kid was born. I went to school in Shawnee Mission and I had already decided my kids would be in Shawnee Mission. I do definitely think Shawnee Mission and Blue Valley schools are better than KCMO schools.

[luzianne]

Originally Posted by cp1969

I would say the PARENTS need to be much more involved.

Good point, and maybe that's what makes the difference between Shawnee Mission/Blue Valley and KCMO school districts. The parents at all the schools my kids have attending in Shawnee Mission have been VERY involved.

[skrizzle]

Originally Posted by kcmo

Maybe Samantha is right. KS schools might be better than MO schools...

My kids have been in school for two weeks and the difference in education in Maryland vs Missouri seems like night and day.

I'm starting to think that MO schools only teach to the map test to make the schools "appear" good, mostly to bring up the urban KC and StL schools. What happens is in order for many of MO's urban and some rural schools to even be accredited, the suburban schools ace everything.

My kids were in all the advanced classes in MO and still aced every class and rarely had homework.

The schools out here tell us that something is wrong if your kids are in advanced classes and they still get all A's with little effort. They say kids should have to work very hard for a B.

I'm starting to find out why. In just the first week, it appears the schools out here are at least 1-2 years ahead of comparable schools in MO.

I'm in a state of shock right now and am so glad to have figured this out. Out here, my kids will be ready for college and an east coast college at that. Not so sure in MO, even if they had taken all the advanced courses. I think they would have done fine, but I'm quite impressed at how advanced and how well managed the schools in MD are, especially concerning that they have so many more issues to deal with such as many more nationalities, languages, cultures etc.

I honestly don’t know what to think now of MO schools. Are KS schools better or do they also have somewhat diluted and exaggerated ratings? Is this again a Midwest vs. East Coast thing? Serious question.

One thing that needs to happen in MO is they need to do what is done in MD. The STATE needs to be much more involved, if not run the show. Here in MD, the state runs the show, sets very high standards and makes sure all the districts attempt to reach those standards. In MO, the state takes a very passive stance and basically the districts teach kids to do well on the map test and that’s it. We have many teachers in my family in MO and they all totally agree with me on how the districts don’t teach the kids, but teach them to do well on map.

Anyway, I would be curious to know if anybody has any way of comparing this to KS side schools. I really hope it’s not as bad as it appears, but right now, I’m quite disappointed in basic MO education, but then again, MD schools are said to be the best schools in the nation and so the bar is set high. They must have figured that out by some other way then asking how they do on whatever standard test the states come up with such as college entry exams etc.

What schools did your kids go too?

I went Liberty HS, and when I was moved to college algebra back in the day(was in 9th grade at the time I think), I struggled, I didn't get A's at all....

but regardless.... what specifically is different there? Your saying it's different but haven't explained.

You said your kids hardly had homework, but more home doesn't = better school. In fact I think it just sucks the life out of students.

My personal opinion is most of school high school is a waste. My kids will still be going to it no doubt, but education as a whole in the US is fail... we are raising a nation of political correct robots whose main goal is to be good little worker bees... without parents reinforcing true critical thinking in their children, American education enslaves the mind...

Read The Book - John Taylor Gatto

I suggest people read this if they get the chance... its all online, its free.

From the author who was a New York teacher of the year and taught for 30 years:

Government schooling is the most radical adventure in history. It kills the family by monopolizing the best times of childhood and by teaching disrespect for home and parents. The whole blueprint of school procedure is Egyptian, not Greek or Roman. It grows from the theological idea that human value is a scarce thing, represented symbolically by the narrow peak of a pyramid. That idea passed into American history through the Puritans. It found its "scientific" presentation in the bell curve, along which talent supposedly apportions itself by some Iron Law of Biology. It’s a religious notion, School is its church. I offer rituals to keep heresy at bay. I provide documentation to justify the heavenly pyramid.

Socrates foresaw if teaching became a formal profession, something like this would happen. Professional interest is served by making what is easy to do seem hard; by subordinating the laity to the priesthood. School is too vital a jobs-project, contract giver and protector of the social order to allow itself to be "re-formed." It has political allies to guard its marches, that’s why reforms come and go without changing much. Even reformers can’t imagine school much different.

David learns to read at age four; Rachel, at age nine: In normal development, when both are 13, you can’t tell which one learned first—the five-year spread means nothing at all. But in school I label Rachel "learning disabled" and slow David down a bit, too. For a paycheck, I adjust David to depend on me to tell him when to go and stop. He won’t outgrow that dependency. I identify Rachel as discount merchandise, "special education" fodder. She’ll be locked in her place forever.

In 30 years of teaching kids rich and poor I almost never met a learning disabled child; hardly ever met a gifted and talented one either. Like all school categories, these are sacred myths, created by human imagination. They derive from questionable values we never examine because they preserve the temple of schooling.

That’s the secret behind short-answer tests, bells, uniform time blocks, age grading, standardization, and all the rest of the school religion punishing our nation. There isn’t a right way to become educated; there are as many ways as fingerprints. We don’t need state-certified teachers to make education happen—that probably guarantees it won’t.

How much more evidence is necessary? Good schools don’t need more money or a longer year; they need real free-market choices, variety that speaks to every need and runs risks. We don’t need a national curriculum or national testing either. Both initiatives arise from ignorance of how people learn or deliberate indifference to it. I can’t teach this way any longer. If you hear of a job where I don’t have to hurt kids to make a living, let me know. Come fall I’ll be looking for work.

[Samantha S]

Originally Posted by skrizzle's book

It kills the family by monopolizing the best times of childhood and by teaching disrespect for home and parents. .....

Aaaaaaaannnnnnd, ya lost me

I don't think the Fed has it all figured out, as evidenced by the fubar mess that "No Teacher Left Standing" ... oops, I mean "No Child Left Behind" is.

But this guy is just grinding an axe.

[skrizzle]

Originally Posted by Samantha S

Aaaaaaaannnnnnd, ya lost me

I don't think the Fed has it all figured out, as evidenced by the fubar mess that "No Teacher Left Standing" ... oops, I mean "No Child Left Behind" is.

But this guy is just grinding an axe.

You should try reading more then just that....

Our whole system of learning is based on Prussian compulsory education system which was

" The purpose of the system was to instill loyalty to the Crown and to train young men for the military and the bureaucracy."

the difference? Now its to train us to be worker bees for the government, BTW who is the largest employer in the US?? The government, even more so then Walmart.... who controls the news? Do you really think CNN/Fox/MSNBC, etc don't have corporations pushing the news in the way they want? And where does the majority of the senators and reps get their money? It's not from our taxes....

[Samantha S]

Originally Posted by skrizzle

the difference? Now its to train us to be worker bees for the government,

Blah blah blah ... I've heard that drill

If you follow the diatribe back to its sources, it's easier to recognize it for the BS that it is.

Just my humble opinion, of course. Again, I'm not saying our education system is perfect, far from it. But I disagree about its conspiratorial motivations, which always seem to be touted more emphatically when there is a democrat in the White House.

[skrizzle]

The author is conservative... You choose to ignore like most which is why as a whole we fail

[Samantha S]

Originally Posted by skrizzle

The author is conservative... You choose to ignore like most which is why as a whole we fail

Of course the author is conservative, so are most of the people who believe the stuff he's saying. People who want funding diverted from public schools and given to private schools, people who advocate home-schooling. and people who want religion brought back into public schools all find aspects of that diatribe that resonate and that they use to tout their cases. I've heard it all before ... it's popular in areas that are largely Christian.

IMO the author is just bitter and ignorant. I ignore him because he has nothing of value to say. I disagree with his premises and I disagree with his conclusions.

And while there is certainly room for improvement, I don't believe that as a whole we are failing.

But perhaps this is a debate for another section of the forum.

[skrizzle]

Originally Posted by Samantha S

Of course the author is conservative, so are most of the people who believe the stuff he's saying. People who want funding diverted from public schools and given to private schools, people who advocate home-schooling. and people who want religion brought back into public schools all find aspects of that diatribe that resonate and that they use to tout their cases. I've heard it all before ... it's popular in areas that are largely Christian.

IMO the author is just bitter and ignorant. I ignore him because he has nothing of value to say. I disagree with his premises and I disagree with his conclusions.

And while there is certainly room for improvement, I don't believe that as a whole we are failing.

But perhaps this is a debate for another section of the forum.

I'm atheist and very liberal... soooo?? I don't support religion in school, I don't want in god we trust on our money... remember i've said it a billion times its why I have a problem with KS, its full of religious nuts...

He is bitter and ignorant and you haven't read what he says? He does advocate home schooling, and i'm not a fan of that either personally, but I do think our education could be better, and our system is flawed... kids aren't getting educated, they are getting trained for a life of mediocricity...

[cp1969]

Originally Posted by skrizzle

I'm atheist and very liberal... soooo?? I don't support religion in school, I don't want in god we trust on our money... remember i've said it a billion times its why I have a problem with KS, its full of religious nuts...

You might want to rein in some of that open-mindedness you're blessed with. It's almost too much.

Oh! I said 'blessed'...I take it back. I guess you must have developed that open-mindedness all on your own unless it's inherited from the primordial mud.