[ScoopLV]

Originally Posted by clutchcargo777

Seriously, eventually something you like will be targeted.

It's already happening with foie. California banned production. So now all the Californians come to Las Vegas and Hoover-up foie gras like it's cocaine, Cuban cigars and absinthe all rolled into one. Nothing like prohibition to make people want something.

Have you noticed that I have never suggested that we ban things? Only that we let the market take care of it for us? I don't have to call for cigarettes to be banned. The market is going to take care of that for me. Prohibition didn't work for alcohol. Prohibition isn't working for narcotics. Prohibition won't work for foie gras. Prohibition doesn't work. Period. It has never worked in the past. And it will never work in the future.

Since most of us agree that smoking in public is not a fundamental right, property owners are free to decide if smoking is allowed or disallowed on their property. As soon as they decide that they are losing more money from non-smokers than they gain from smokers, they will change their smoking policies.

And for that reason, "the trend is not their friend."

[SonySegaTendo617]

Originally Posted by ScoopLV

I think you're missing the point that so few people are smoking these days that it is possible for large retail operations to jettison tobacco sales entirely and not miss them. A big freakin' team of accountants at CVS looked at the numbers and agreed that being the first drug chain to be tobacco-free was worth the revenue hit.

That wasn't possible 20 years ago, or even 10, or even FIVE.

There are still people out there whose preferred carrier is Northwest because they were the first to embrace smoke-free flying. CVS knows this. I don't think this was a particularly bad gamble for them.


It doesn't matter if people agree or not. "No Smoking" is going to take hold everywhere. This is inevitable. There is no stopping it. Smokers are going to continue to be squeezed out of the rest of society until there aren't any left.

Another thing too, is that they merged with a health care services company(Caremark), and they wanted to take a different direction and gamble on their stores more providing services like that, instead of selling tobacco products. However, I also think it's hypocritical for a company to pompously ban tobacco products, then still sell other products that cause a lot of health problems, such as candy, junk food, and liquor. If they want to take that risk of eliminating tobacco products(plus the sale of other items generated from smokers walking into the doors of their sales and being enticed to buy other items, that'll no longer occur due to CVS' tobacco ban), great. It's their company, and obviously other fellow stores with pharmacies decided they don't want to copy off that move, like Walgreens(which I know definitely has made a public statement since their move, that they won't be copying CVS' move).

Also I can't remember what poster mentioned them in this thread, but Target hasn't sold tobacco products since sometime in the mid or late 90s. Someone incorrectly said that earlier in this thread, so I'm just noting that quickly to correct that error.

And finally, so well said clutchcargo777 with your page 13 post. The banners do go after anything they can, not caring about the true science behind the scenes that's been done, or that the proposed bans they try for(i.e. the large soda cup ban in NYC, that was overturned in a court decision) are overkill. I have no doubt that they don't care that e-cigs have already been proven for their vapor to not be unsafe to bystanders( BMC Public Health | Full text | Peering through the mist: systematic review of what the chemistry of contaminants in electronic cigarettes tells us about health risks ), though I will say that I always ask an employee or manager who works at a bar before I vape anyway. Both those who smoke and vape should be considerate to others, and that businesses should also be free to have policies not permitting smoking and/or vaping, if they feel it'll better accommodate the majority of their customers. My experiences in non-ban Indiana(bars and casinos are exempted from their state ban, and only workplaces and restaurants are included) sure make me think complete smoking bans are not necessary at all, due to the fact a lot of bars and casinos already have made moves to accomodate non-smokers, such as totally prohibiting smoking inside the bar(i.e. Corby's Irish Pub in South Bend, Center Lounge in Whiting, Beer Geeks in Highland, and there are a few more no smoking bars in NWI that are escaping my memory), or prohibiting smoking in some parts of the gaming floor(i.e. Majestic Star in Gary, which I read just made a whole floor of their casino no smoking). I have no doubt that a lot of Illinois bars and casinos would remain no smoking or keep large parts of their casino as no smoking, if Illinois ever were to repeal their smoking ban for bars and casinos. For the record, I don't have a problem with prohibiting smoking in workplaces and restaurants, but I feel it's overkill to prohibit smoking in businesses restricted to adults only, and where clear external signage indicates that smoking is allowed inside.

[Chinga]

The trend is always the smokers friend in Las Vegas. Casinos know how much money they will lose if they ban smoking. Atlantic city was almost INSTANTLY dead when they tried to ban smoking, and that is on the nanny state east coast, just imagine how poorly it would go over here.

Any time I have ever been inside a vegas casino with a non smoking area, the non smoking area has been dead. We are Vegas, not California. If you do not like smoking, do not come here and do not move here.

[LasVegasPlayer]

Travel Weekly has corrected some of the errors in the article posted by OP. Several other obvious ones are still in it. I am surprised they didn't just delete it.

[SBender]

This is not ever going to happen soon. The more upscale properties would never adopt it because of highly sought after European and Asian Clientele from overseas most of whom smoke. The other lower end properties like Ballys or Flamingo or Excalibur are never going to do it because you know what I see when i walk through there? Older woman playing slots. And you know what their all doing, SMOKING. And who do you think decides where they go on vacation? The answer is not their husband. At best you might find a couple places who try to create a niche market. Your sadly mistaken if you think this is happening in the next 15 years.

[logline]

Originally Posted by SBender

This is not ever going to happen soon. The more upscale properties would never adopt it because of highly sought after European and Asian Clientele from overseas most of whom smoke. The other lower end properties like Ballys or Flamingo or Excalibur are never going to do it because you know what I see when i walk through there? Older woman playing slots. And you know what their all doing, SMOKING. And who do you think decides where they go on vacation? The answer is not their husband. At best you might find a couple places who try to create a niche market. Your sadly mistaken if you think this is happening in the next 15 years.

MGM is already sending out surveys to their frequent guests, seeking input on possible future changes, including preferences for smoke-free casinos and opinions on e-cigs. This was just confirmed on the latest Five Hundy By Midnight podcast. I'm not saying this is going to happen anytime soon, but to say the casinos (including one of the biggest chains) are not seriously exploring it is false.

http://www.fivehundybymidnight.com/
(about the 16 minute mark)

[SBender]

Originally Posted by logline

MGM is already sending out surveys to their frequent guests, seeking input on possible future changes, including preferences for smoke-free casinos and opinions on e-cigs. This was just confirmed on the latest Five Hundy By Midnight podcast. I'm not saying this is going to happen anytime soon, but to say the casinos (including one of the biggest chains) are not seriously exploring it is false.

http://www.fivehundybymidnight.com/
(about the 16 minute mark)

OK, so their sending out a survey that includes a question or questions about "preferences for smoke free casinos". MGM has a huge Marketing department and that's what they do. Would that include just NYNY or some other MGM property to fit this niche market or every MGM property?

I can tell you these laws kill businesses like this. I owned a bar in Ohio when no smoking legislation passed in 2008. Almost 2,000 bars handed in their liquor license and did not renew it in the first 2 years. And the ones that stayed open where less busy than before. That's a lot of business gone into thin air.

All I was saying is I can promise Vegas get's this right and let's the market decide. Way to much depends on it. Their is no way any type of no smoking in any casinos law is passed by gaming or the state of Nevada. At best what your hoping for are some casinos to appeal to the militant non smoker.

[logline]

Exactly. The market will ultimately decide... hence the name of this thread.

[ScoopLV]

And I do not see why some people want to lump cigarettes in with mom, apple pie and baseball.

[SBender]

Why don't you post a graph that shows the percentage of adults who smoke that play slot machines? Or a graph that shows the percentage of adults who drink alcohol that smoke? Or how about a graph that shows people that only smoke when they drink? Or maybe you could just walk around the slot areas and see what i see, EVERYBODY'S SMOKING!!! Here's why graphs like that don't work, it includes all the people who would never walk through the door in the first place.