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I have worked with a bunch of H1B workers and many just got here and still need training but the US managers are too busy to train them so most of them just sit around and watch youtube.
So instead of hiring US born Americans college grads this is what America has to offer!!?
I plan on supporting the candidate that will kick out all of you H1B workers, I will do whatever it takes to make you guys work like slaves that you'll regret coming to America.
So, I realize this is anecdotal, but take it as you will:
A local tech entrepreneur in my area (friend of a friend-type scenario) noticed how many recent American graduates were finding themselves either unemployed or underemployed after college. Meanwhile, he observed that the rising demand for tech was not being fulfilled by the labor supply, whether domestic or visa-sponsored.
To combat this, he recruited recent unemployed college grads with the following proposition - he would agree to train them for 4 months in QA testing and programming with enough basic skills to secure a jr - level role in IT which would pay market rate (say, for sake of argument, 50-60k/annually). The training would be free - however; the students were expected to abide by the following conditions:
1) show up to all classes and take the learning process seriously as they would a full-time job and
2) if they were hired within a year following completion of training, a portion of the 1st year's salary earned by the student would be used to pay back the expenses incurred in providing the training. If the student did not secure a job in the relevant industry within the first year, no money would be owed for training.
His proposition gained significant interest and a sizeable group accepted. Of this group, (using rough numbers), about 3/4 or more were US-born and US-educated and the remaining 1/4 (or less) were foreigners or 1st generation children of immigrant parents. Of the pilot group, over 90% of the US-born/educated students dropped out in the first month of training, citing the programming and mathematical concepts being taught as 'too hard' and the classroom schedule as 'too demanding' (all students were unemployed at the time they began the program).
As last I heard this training program still exists, however the students are more closely vetted and there is now much higher scrutiny placed on American students as they repeatedly showed that they were much less likely to stay the course till completion and were on average not willing to attend all classes on schedule.
So, there are multiple sides to every story, and when people suggest that we should simply give all the visa positions to US workers, I think it's useful to consider all sides. Most programming/IT jobs involve longer hours, more rigorous and continuous training (to stay on top of technology) and a heavier emphasis on algorithmic thinking and mathematical concepts. Given the experience described above when trying to basically hand out training for free to unemployed grads, one wonders whether the hiring managers in many companies are facing a similar challenge?
Last edited by vladlensky; 06-06-2016 at 01:51 PM..
i myself got unlucky back in 2005 when i was not able to get in the h1b visa lottery and had to wait for another year--and another visa lottery--before i could get in the US to work. it's about time that the USCIS is being made accountable on how they do "lottery"
You should be glad it even exists, otherwise you might never get to come here.
Some gratitude would be nice. We don't owe you a visa.
You completely missed the point when went to the attack the OP and assumed that the OP is not grateful. Maybe he is. I understand that you are bitter because the abuse in the IT field. Now imagine if you have a complaint about gender pay inequality and immediately gets shut off with someone saying you should be glad that you have a job, even tough you are being paid less than the dude that does exactly the same work.
The point of the lawsuit is that the lottery is a procedure that is not in the law, therefore there is not any legal justification for it, and that ends up benefiting companies that game the system, that are probably the biggest part of the reason that you are upset. The IT outsourcing companies apply for three or four times the number of actual candidates that they need, so they end up with all the positions that they need filled. Since the fees for the application not selected in the lottery are reimbursed, there is no loss for them. The only rule in place is that the fees are not reimbursed if they fill multiple applications for the same candidate. So this is a clear indication that they are willing to take any candidate with no exceptional ability, pretty much anybody that is selected in the lottery will do, the candidates will likely be underpaid, exploited, and be from a country with long waiting lists to get permanent status so they can work there forever; and these are the companies that will undercut competitors price.
While a small company (not an IT outsourcing mill) that does not game the system may only have one candidate fit for the position, that may actually have good qualifications, in a crucial position that really needs to be filled. That is the kind position that actually generates business growth, that generates more jobs for locals instead of just feeding the exploitation cycle.
The current system has many flaws that are exploited, this one of them and if changed it would reduce the problems. If the visas available would be awarded in the order of received application for that month and if the number of visas available through the year would be distributed for each month it would make much more sense. Another change that I would make would be placing the applications regarding the salary offered (adjusting for country region ), the applicants offered a higher salary have a higher potential to actually have exceptional ability and better value for the american society. Maybe based on the salary offer compared to the prevailing wage.
Like many hateful comments, if you just say close the program entirely, which is unlikely to happen, nothing will get done. But if you try to understand what are the flaws that let the abuse happen, and help someone try to close the loopholes. the situation will get better.
You completely missed the point when went to the attack the OP and assumed that the OP is not grateful. Maybe he is. I understand that you are bitter because the abuse in the IT field. Now imagine if you have a complaint about gender pay inequality and immediately gets shut off with someone saying you should be glad that you have a job, even tough you are being paid less than the dude that does exactly the same work.
The point of the lawsuit is that the lottery is a procedure that is not in the law, therefore there is not any legal justification for it, and that ends up benefiting companies that game the system, that are probably the biggest part of the reason that you are upset. The IT outsourcing companies apply for three or four times the number of actual candidates that they need, so they end up with all the positions that they need filled. Since the fees for the application not selected in the lottery are reimbursed, there is no loss for them. The only rule in place is that the fees are not reimbursed if they fill multiple applications for the same candidate. So this is a clear indication that they are willing to take any candidate with no exceptional ability, pretty much anybody that is selected in the lottery will do, the candidates will likely be underpaid, exploited, and be from a country with long waiting lists to get permanent status so they can work there forever; and these are the companies that will undercut competitors price.
While a small company (not an IT outsourcing mill) that does not game the system may only have one candidate fit for the position, that may actually have good qualifications, in a crucial position that really needs to be filled. That is the kind position that actually generates business growth, that generates more jobs for locals instead of just feeding the exploitation cycle.
The current system has many flaws that are exploited, this one of them and if changed it would reduce the problems. If the visas available would be awarded in the order of received application for that month and if the number of visas available through the year would be distributed for each month it would make much more sense. Another change that I would make would be placing the applications regarding the salary offered (adjusting for country region ), the applicants offered a higher salary have a higher potential to actually have exceptional ability and better value for the american society. Maybe based on the salary offer compared to the prevailing wage.
Like many hateful comments, if you just say close the program entirely, which is unlikely to happen, nothing will get done. But if you try to understand what are the flaws that let the abuse happen, and help someone try to close the loopholes. the situation will get better.
I know what the situation is with the H1B visa. I am well aware of the widespread abuse and fraud associated with the program.
My solution would be to get rid of it altogether because the skills gap is a myth.
Not bad. However another variant. Simply make H1Bs easily portable so once here any recipient and can go for any job he or she can get.
Need to be free of the indentured bit.
Agreed, I would say that both are good ideas.
Simple, too. No need for some byzantine system.
I work in tech, and I support the idea of having more high-skilled programmers coming to America to work. There's a lot of first-world talent out there that we aren't getting. I'd love to have more Russians, Eastern Europeans, British, etc., not just Indians.
While the USA is busy lowering math standards to bring 'equality' to schools, US companies only succeed by raising needed math standards.
While the USA is getting more obese, thin foreign photo models are getting work permits.
While foreigners learn 2, 3 languages in their lifetime, US citizens struggle with grammar and spelling of their mother tongue.
While most US doctors have their student loans to pay, often graduate with so-so grades, specialize in something lucrative, and search the wealthy urban centers, foreign medical doctors will be tested much more rigorously, have a background in family medicine, and are first sent to poor rural areas of the US.
Efficiency, humility, and dedication is a hallmark of any imported workforce anywhere in the world. The USA was built on it and not on feelings of entitlement.
This is incredibly false in so many ways, I don't even know where to begin. Not to mention the fact that you have no data or statistics to back up any of what you are saying.
Many H1-B visa holders graduated from mediocre, online universities. They often can't speak coherent English. They often have cultural issues that prevent them from fully integrating into American society (such as a foreign male worker who refuses to accept direction from a female supervisor). But employers want them, because they can pay them far less money. This is a well known fact. H1-B visa holders are paid less than American workers who do the same job.
I work in tech, and I support the idea of having more high-skilled programmers coming to America to work. There's a lot of first-world talent out there that we aren't getting. I'd love to have more Russians, Eastern Europeans, British, etc., not just Indians.
Meanwhile experienced Americans are being displaced by H1-B visa holders. To add insult to injury, if they want their severance package, they have to train their replacements.
How anyone can support a visa program that is riddled with fraud and corruption is beyond me. Supporting the H1-B visa program while knowing that Americans are losing their jobs, is very callous.
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