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Quote:
"Go back to entry #81 of this thread, by mingna, 3rd para quoted, in bold. Any government programs that does not facilitate or force an immigrant to learn English is precisely what that person said. It is not a strawman when the statement is actually made - you can look up the meaning."
Ah, so now we want to parse force. No, I count that as violence (actual or implied, I don't see a real difference there @ the sharp end.) What are the sanctions? - threaten to withhold food assistance, or rent assistance, or utilities assistance, medical care, education, job training? Immigrants to the US are already vulnerable - if they don't speak the language, don't know the culture, can't navigate the government & education & work mazes. That is one of the things that makes immigrants valuable to the service industries - they work long hours, don't complain, & aren't likely to report malpractice to Wage & Hour Division.
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You are really over-exaggerating and misrepresenting the intent behind my wording of "force." I believe I am in the best position to know the intent behind those words, and it was certainly never in line with waterboarding.
Instead, it's on par to me wanting to "force" my kids to eat their veggies because it would do them good to add some fiber and nutrients to their diet. And I was mainly applying this to poorer, uneducated immigrants.
The only "sanctions" against immigrants in this context would be self-imposed, because those that choose not to learn English are limited in job prospects to either their own ethnic enclaves, or low-paying, dead-end jobs with little advancement prospects. Not to mention, if they have school age kids, they would not be able to fully aid their kids in homework, communicate with teachers, etc.
But really, whatever. Believe what you want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sas318
Imagine being an English speaker and learning an Asian language that relies on tones to say different vocabulary words, not to mention the order of grammar is different.
If one is motivated enough, and provided with the opportunity, then it can be done. IMO, both studying the written language as well as "forced" practice of speaking through immersion, is the quickest, most effective way.
When we lived in Shanghai, my American husband of Western-European descent managed to learn both written and (passable) spoken Mandarin within one year. He studied the written part every night, listened to podcasts tutorials to understand the spoken, and forced himself to speak it whenever possible in daily life. In fact, he became so fluent, he would act as my translator (both written and spoken) whenever the locals spoke to me in Mandarin after assuming I was Chinese.
I also learned a bit, mainly in order to function in daily life by effectively communicating with locals at the market, with domestic help, restaurants, etc. But in many areas, I am lazy and seek the path of least resistance, so I'm sure if there were government programs available that made it easier for me to not learn the language in order to function in daily life there, I would probably have availed myself to them, and consequently not learn as much Mandarin as I did.
BTW, you're right. It's a majority English speaking country that was built by immigrants. You couldn't write 3 sentences together with proper punctuation, grammar or spelling and you expect what of those whose first language isn't English?
BIG difference between anal retentive grammar and speaking English and reading signs. but you already knew that which makes you intellectually dishonest and degrades your credibility.
They don't want us to learn their language. You have to remember most of the rest of world knows more than one language.
The Polish families I am referring to in Detroit - the women didn't work. No one was out of the household, and I am sure most of the groceries in the area were immigrant as well. The men worked, the women stayed home.
76% Hispanic. The stores all have Spanish signs. I believe one business was in English plus the Senior Center. While we drove through town, we saw no whites, one black and the remainder were Hispanic. But, get this, the signs on the kiosks at the Chief Joseph Dam overlook had Spanish above the English. I felt like I was passing through Mexico, not the United States. And, yes, I have spent some time in that country in areas where you rarely see tourists. And, if you prefer this culture, you will begin to see small wastebaskets with excrement smeared toilet paper. If there is no wastebasket, then you will see signs in English and Spanish reminding you that the soiled tissue belongs in the toilet, not on the floor. This is the first time I have seen this outside of Mexico (the wastebaskets, not the signs). This is the America you multiculturalists wanted.
Nope, they dont have to, and i refuse to speak english u less i have to, like work
Then you will remain stuck in your lower socioeconomic culture. Besides, your English language skills need some honing unless you are proud to speak that way.
And, if you prefer this culture, you will begin to see small wastebaskets with excrement smeared toilet paper. If there is no wastebasket, then you will see signs in English and Spanish reminding you that the soiled tissue belongs in the toilet, not on the floor. This is the first time I have seen this outside of Mexico (the wastebaskets, not the signs). This is the America you multiculturalists wanted.
Nah, it's not a culture issue, it's a plumbing issue. Once upon a time - & possibly still, for all I know - toilet fixtures in private homes (?) in Mexico didn't generate enough force to reliably flush away all the debris. TMK, that's not a problem in the US (although we are having to rethink how much water we dedicate to the purpose, especially in the future - but that's another topic).
So no, no one - that I know of - is advocating tossing used toilet paper about in US bathrooms. Quite the opposite. It's an educational issue more than anything else - as children are born in the US & go through schooling here, they'll learn the procedures. Then they'll likely take that information home with them. Any US home that meets code - TMK - will have toilets that generate enough flow to flush reliably.
& of course, Mexico is also located in N. America - so the toilet problem there - if it still exists - has been one of long standing in America.
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Packs Americana?
