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In your anger at the banks that have largely paid their money back, maybe you missed the illegals taking over jobs not only in the manufacturing industry but also in construction. These ARE jobs that Americans have done and continue to do, but at a much reduced pay scale. These people USED to be middle class.
You seem to be OK with private citizens hireing illegals but may hate businesses that exploit cheap labor. What is the difference? It's exploitation, period.
Many of the unemployed would gladly take a job that the illegals are doing now. I hope you have job security or you may find out first hand.
This has nothing to do with race and to make that claim is disingenuous. Do you realize that the Hispanic Governor of New Mexico is taking a stand by not allowing illegals to get drivers licenses in the state?
It must suck to have elected officials in your state that will only legislate to protect the elite. In my state we are attempting to protect the middle class for a change.
Thank you for weighing in. I just wanted to let you know that not every NY'er is a flaming liberal socialist who thinks illegal aliens have a right to be here and to work here. As a matter of fact, our last elected governor, Elliot Spitzer, claimed he was going to make it legal for illegal aliens to get driver's licenses in our state and there was a tremendous backlash and he didn't end up doing it because he didn't dare.
Not all of us in NY hire them to do odd jobs or take the tax burden they place on us lightly.
I also agree that it has nothing to do with race, as I am against ALL illegal aliens, be they Mexican, Central American, Irish, Polish, Russian, Armenian, African, etc. Come here legally and I'll make you welcome. If you don't, don't expect any of my tax money for your needs and your children's needs and don't expect me to hire you.
In your anger at the banks that have largely paid their money back, maybe you missed the illegals taking over jobs not only in the manufacturing industry but also in construction. These ARE jobs that Americans have done and continue to do, but at a much reduced pay scale. These people USED to be middle class.
Are you implying that the manufacturing and construction industries still exist here but that they are now staffed with illegals? Where are these factories, I would like to visit. Because it's my understanding that US companies simply closed down their US factories and opened them in China, Mexico, India, etc. More recently, they're doing the same with lower-level service jobs such as tech support.
Illegal immigrants fall into two general catagories - ones that have false papers/SS numbers, that work real jobs and pay taxes; and those that don't have papers that work low-skilled jobs. Many end up in construction, true, andthe decline of unions has helped enable this.
Economists concur that immigration has reduced the wages of native workers with relatively little education and few skills. But for the remainder of the U.S. workforce, the impact has not been significant.
Since you mention it yes, many of the large banks (but not the small ones) have paid back TARP loans, which is probably what you've heard about. I'm considering the entire bailout program which included the $182 billion AIG bailout, which funnelled money directly to the banks that gambled and lost on the real estate market, the taxpayer-subsidized acquisition of Wachovia by Wells Fargo which cost us $25 billion in tax breaks, letting major banks borrow directly from the Fed, etc. etc.
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You seem to be OK with private citizens hireing illegals but may hate businesses that exploit cheap labor. What is the difference? It's exploitation, period.
Not really. If three guys come to my house and offer to shovel the snow, we negotiate a price and they agree, that's a transaction. If three guys get a job at a meat packing plant, and are forced to endure horrific, unsafe conditions for low wages under the threat that their employer will turn them into the INS, that's exploitation. I suspect you can smell the difference.
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Many of the unemployed would gladly take a job that the illegals are doing now. I hope you have job security or you may find out first hand.
OH NOS NOW IT IS PERSONAL!!!!!
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This has nothing to do with race and to make that claim is disingenuous. Do you realize that the Hispanic Governor of New Mexico is taking a stand by not allowing illegals to get drivers licenses in the state?
I was referring to Johninswestbury, whose post history, even in this very thread, portrays everyone that speaks Spanish as an illegal gang member living 20 to a house and funneling money to Juarez from a shop on Post Avenue.
Not sure what your NM statement means, is that kinda like "I'm not racist I have black friends"?
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It must suck to have elected officials in your state that will only legislate to protect the elite. In my state we are attempting to protect the middle class for a change.
Why yes, it does. That's actually a problem nationwide, not just in NY, thus my gibe at bankers. If you insist that combating Mexicans is the cornerstone of protecting the middle class, though, then you deserve what you get - nothing.
Building walls or holding back drivers' licenses isn't going to bring manufacturing jobs back from China, prevent Wall Street from looting this country's properity, or give you access to affordable education and healthcare for your family. The elite are able to continue to grift this country because they have developed methods far more complex than the average person could understand. Instead of rebelling against their plutocracy, they have you chasing after Juan or Mohammed.
I_Love_LI_but, your post needs more pictures of American flags or Dale Earnhardt or a crying bald eagle or something.
I find it amazing that in all your anger about hiring illegal aliens, I actually had my own kids shovel and not one person said well done. I am not looking for a pat on the back or anything like that, but dont you think one person would have said ; its the way it should be?
Here I am trying to do what you all want to happen, and everyone wants to complain about what is not happening.
I find it amazing that in all your anger about hiring illegal aliens, I actually had my own kids shovel and not one person said well done. I am not looking for a pat on the back or anything like that, but dont you think one person would have said ; its the way it should be?
Here I am trying to do what you all want to happen, and everyone wants to complain about what is not happening.
That IS the way it should be. We complain about the obesity epidemic and buy our kids DSI's to keep them ocupied so we can enjoy our lives away from the encumberance of our offspring. We expect our school system to teach our kids right from wrong. We can't imagine that the goverment wouldn't take care of our every need.
Thanks for teaching your kids responsibility. It may be too late for some "adults".
I will reply to interlude when I finish doing my own chores.
When I was still living out on LI with my parents, I would shovel our walks, driveway, my next door neighbor's and the one next to them. All were owned by retirees/older people who probably shouldn't be out shoveling.
How much did I charge? Zero, zip, nada. I did it because it was the right thing to do.
Hell If I had a snow blower, I probably would have done everyone's driveway/walk on my block.
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Originally Posted by okaydorothy
I am very very proud to say that my boys who are 10 and 12 shoveled four driveways yesterday. They did ours, our elderly neighbour's, my neighbour who is probably in his 30's and another neighbour who had a sick dog.
They earned $45 each for the 4 hours ; yes, they did have a blower and I did help also.
Honestly, I saw nobody else helping neighbours, but its the proper if not old fashioned thing to do.
Its snobs like you who hire these illegals that are ruining the island. Those guys probably live in an overcrowded house in the next town, where they are active gang members. An underclass is growing because of lazy, selfish people like you. These guys are probably laughing it up in the barrio next to your town about how "lazy" gringos are.
I'm sick of having you dump these guys on towns like mine, leaving us to deal with the mess these guys create, not to mention jamming up my bus.
Last edited by mrmondaynight; 01-15-2011 at 08:10 PM..
Are you implying that the manufacturing and construction industries still exist here but that they are now staffed with illegals? Where are these factories, I would like to visit. Because it's my understanding that US companies simply closed down their US factories and opened them in China, Mexico, India, etc. More recently, they're doing the same with lower-level service jobs such as tech support.
These factories are in my state and considering there aren't many left they need to be staffed with legal citizens. Only 27% of the population has a college degree. Do we put all of the legal unskilled citizens on welfare so illegals can make more money for the corporations?
Illegal immigrants fall into two general categorise - ones that have false papers/SS numbers, that work real jobs and pay taxes; and those that don't have papers that work low-skilled jobs. Many end up in construction, true, and the decline of unions has helped enable this.
Economists concur that immigration has reduced the wages of native workers with relatively little education and few skills. But for the remainder of the U.S. workforce, the impact has not been significant.
I'm glad that 27% hasn't been impacted, unless an illegal is using THEIR social security card. The whole "they only do the jobs that no one else will" seems to have changed a bit.
Since you mention it yes, many of the large banks (but not the small ones) have paid back TARP loans, which is probably what you've heard about. I'm considering the entire bailout program which included the $182 billion AIG bailout, which funnelled money directly to the banks that gambled and lost on the real estate market, the taxpayer-subsidized acquisition of Wachovia by Wells Fargo which cost us $25 billion in tax breaks, letting major banks borrow directly from the Fed, etc. etc.
Not really. If three guys come to my house and offer to shovel the snow, we negotiate a price and they agree, that's a transaction. If three guys get a job at a meat packing plant, and are forced to endure horrific, unsafe conditions for low wages under the threat that their employer will turn them into the INS, that's exploitation. I suspect you can smell the difference.
Any transaction that transpires outside the law is illegal. And there are no horrific conditions.They take the same jobs at reduced rates and pay no taxes.
OH NOS NOW IT IS PERSONAL!!!!!
Yes, it is personal. It's personal to the citizens that can no longer take care of their families. Just because they worked construction or in factories you can cast them aside?
I was referring to Johninswestbury, whose post history, even in this very thread, portrays everyone that speaks Spanish as an illegal gang member living 20 to a house and funneling money to Juarez from a shop on Post Avenue.
Not sure what your NM statement means, is that kinda like "I'm not racist I have black friends"?
Well, I guess it means that a HISPANIC governor is most likely not racist against her own race. But I guess you could say she probably has Hispanic friends also if that helps. Incidentally, 4 of my 7 grand kids are of mixed race. So I guess I have mixed race friends also. Geez is the race card all people ever use?
Building walls or holding back drivers' licenses isn't going to bring manufacturing jobs back from China, prevent Wall Street from looting this country's properity, or give you access to affordable education and healthcare for your family. The elite are able to continue to grift this country because they have developed methods far more complex than the average person could understand. Instead of rebelling against their plutocracy, they have you chasing after Juan or Mohammed.
No, that alone won't do it. But if you elect people that are forced to take away the incentive for outsourcing and using illegal laborers it will. The problem is, we don't seem to give a darn about anyone but ourselves these days and don't recognize the problem until it is on our doorstep.
I_Love_LI_but, your post needs more pictures of American flags or Dale Earnhardt or a crying bald eagle or something.
Is the above statement directed at me? I'm confused about that one.
Illegal immigrants fall into two general categorise - ones that have false papers/SS numbers, that work real jobs and pay taxes
It is a fallacy to assume that they "pay taxes" like everyone else who is here legally does. If they are on the books with phony social security numbers, they may not get away with avoiding the medicare tax, etc., but as for income taxes, they DO NOT have to pay them because they can either (a) claim a huge number of allowances on Line 5 or (b) write "EXEMPT" on Line 7 so that absolutely no income taxes are withheld from their paychecks. If they are smart enough to get phony SS#'s, they are smart enough to do this, plus other illegal aliens help them out and show them the ropes when it comes to cheating the U.S. and its real taxpayers.
These factories are in my state and considering there aren't many left they need to be staffed with legal citizens. Only 27% of the population has a college degree. Do we put all of the legal unskilled citizens on welfare so illegals can make more money for the corporations?
You're going to have to show me proof of those factories and their illegal immigrant staffing. We're no longer a manufacturing economy and there are fewer factories left overall, none the less all staffed with illegals. Any union shop wouldn't allow that, for example.
By the way, not having college degree does not make you unskilled. Most trade workers don't have college degrees and they certainly have a skill. I was speaking of unskilled laborers.
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I'm glad that 27% hasn't been impacted, unless an illegal is using THEIR social security card. The whole "they only do the jobs that no one else will" seems to have changed a bit.
The biggest problem with job growth right now isn't too few new jobs. It's too few skilled workers. You may not know this, but the US has a shortage of skilled workers :
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And she's not alone. The government says there are 227,000 open manufacturing jobs, more than double the number a year ago. One hundred eighty-three thousand have been created since December, the strongest seven-month streak in a decade.
Fillingham said it's hard to fill these jobs because they require people who are good at math, good with their hands and willing to work on a factory floor.
She's had to resort to paying people to learn on the job, like 25-year-old Matthew McDannel. The average manufacturing worker is more than twice his age.
"Maybe the work's too hard," said McDannel. "Maybe it's too hot. Maybe people just think about it and they're just, like, 'Oh, I don't want to do that.'"
By the year 2012 it's estimated this country will be three million skilled workers short, and it's not just in manufacturing sector. A recent survey found 22 percent of American businesses say they are ready to hire if they can find the right people.
What we need is to reform our education system, which is woefully underpreparing Americans for the job market and declining in quality every year. We should also fund retraining for Americans that can't find skilled work. Neither of these solutions includes fences or deportation.
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Any transaction that transpires outside the law is illegal. And there are no horrific conditions.They take the same jobs at reduced rates and pay no taxes.
You seem to have a problem addressing my points and instead just want to shoehorn in your arguments even if they aren't relevant. It's often called "moving the goalpost".
I'm not an employer and I don't have a legal duty to check the citizenship status of someone shoveling snow off of my driveway. But the question was not whether it was "illegal" but whether doing so was exploitative . It's a pretty good bet that paying someone to shovel snow, absent some coersion or threat, isn't exploitative.
Yes, it is personal. It's personal to the citizens that can no longer take care of their families. Just because they worked construction or in factories you can cast them aside?
Very sorry for them but it has nothing to do with Mexicans. If you want to do something to help the unemployed factory workers, lobby for better education and job retraining.
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Well, I guess it means that a HISPANIC governor is most likely not racist against her own race. But I guess you could say she probably has Hispanic friends also if that helps. Incidentally, 4 of my 7 grand kids are of mixed race. So I guess I have mixed race friends also. Geez is the race card all people ever use?
What does this have to do with Johninwestbury's racism?
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No, that alone won't do it. But if you elect people that are forced to take away the incentive for outsourcing and using illegal laborers it will. The problem is, we don't seem to give a darn about anyone but ourselves these days and don't recognize the problem until it is on our doorstep.
That's a nice sentiment but blaming immigration isn't going to help.
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Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but
It is a fallacy to assume that they "pay taxes" like everyone else who is here legally does. If they are on the books with phony social security numbers, they may not get away with avoiding the medicare tax, etc., but as for income taxes, they DO NOT have to pay them because they can either (a) claim a huge number of allowances on Line 5 or (b) write "EXEMPT" on Line 7 so that absolutely no income taxes are withheld from their paychecks. If they are smart enough to get phony SS#'s, they are smart enough to do this, plus other illegal aliens help them out and show them the ropes when it comes to cheating the U.S. and its real taxpayers.
Here is a good article on the taxes paid by immigrants. Many pay into social security, unemployment, and the income tax base by using falisified social security numbers. They're never going to benefit from social security or unemployment. As for federal taxes, most of them would get a complete refund (due to low income) if they filed their taxes every year, but they're not going to do so because that'd be a really easy way to get caught.
Further, income taxes are far from the only taxes. They're paying sales taxes, gas taxes, and all the other various taxes that everyone pays.
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