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"Most professions require you to stay on top of your game?" Well, I have been staying on top of my game. Paying thousands for graduate courses thru the years. Tenured for almost 5 years now. Recently excessed last month. Definition of tenure: due process. (look it up.) No job is guaranteed for life....on your game or not. Wake up.
and I hope you're not teaching my kids ... it's "through"
Teachers who are highly qualified to teach, say, English, the sciences, math, and related subjects do deserve, in my opinion, a very good salary, but there are other areas in teaching which are not as demanding in preparation for teaching. Many social studies teachers are, in my opinion, not coming out of terribly demanding programs, nor are business, health or many special education teachers. (Teachers of the deaf and visually impaired are often very well trained, but so are social workers and so why do they get paid so much more? I just don't get it.)
Over a number of years, I worked in poor, middle class and wealthy districts. Some teachers were clearly well qualified and taught very difficult subjects and had to do a great deal of preparation. Other teachers seemed to do far less preparation and did not teach demanding subjects. Let's pay for the preparation of the teacher and the difficulty of the subject taught. A good music or art teacher who really does outstanding work should be paid as well as the best science teacher. Many school librarians (school media specialists) were, in my opinion, doing easier and less jobs, for example, as were many social studies teachers. But this is only to generalize.
I think you made a good point. The unionization of teachers actually hurts the good teachers. The AP Physics teacher who spends countless hours working on his/her curriculum and has a track record of above expected student standardized test results is giving away money to the 3rd grade teacher who hasn't changed his/her curriculum in 15 years and achieves below expected test results. Why should they be paid the same? How is that fair?
I had an amazing Calculus teacher in HS who had a history of great Regents scores from students who usually didn't "get" math. I also had an 8th grade English teacher who taught that level because there were no standardized tests at that level (she explained this in her 1st class), she got into teaching because she got the summers off and did very little to progress the writing skills of her students. It pains me, as a capitalist, to think both of these people were paid the same going rate. Some socialist minded leftist needs to explain to me how this is the best system we can come up with?????
I think you made a good point. The unionization of teachers actually hurts the good teachers. The AP Physics teacher who spends countless hours working on his/her curriculum and has a track record of above expected student standardized test results is giving away money to the 3rd grade teacher who hasn't changed his/her curriculum in 15 years and achieves below expected test results. Why should they be paid the same? How is that fair?
Because in real life it's rarely as black and white as your example, and test scores are a bad metric for learning since emphasizing them simply leads to teaching for the test. IE, why the overblown "No Child Left Behind" program has been a total failure. I agree that there should be more ways to reward good teachers and punish bad ones but test scores aren't the answer.
Edited to say that on LI, unionization isn't hurting any teacher. Even the good ones are being paid more than they would be in comparable districts.
I was certified to teach 7 - 12 English, and, as I said, hold an MSW and license, also. The classes I took to get certified in middle and high school English (for my B.A.)were very easy. Not the actual English classes: I am only speaking of the education classes, and the student teaching was also easy to do. I am not sure if graduate degrees to teach English require more brain power than they used to: Maybe yes, maybe no. But I CAN tell you that a master's in special ed used to be a joke of a degree, so easy to get that you couldn't believe it. Not as demanding, probably, as an MA in English and certainly not as demanding as a MS in math or chemistry.
It also depends upon where you got that degree. The program at NYU in English is tough and outstanding (for English graduate education) but I am willing to bet that some programs in special ed are still very easy.
Teachers who are highly qualified to teach, say, English, the sciences, math, and related subjects do deserve, in my opinion, a very good salary, but there are other areas in teaching which are not as demanding in preparation for teaching. Many social studies teachers are, in my opinion, not coming out of terribly demanding programs, nor are business, health or many special education teachers. (Teachers of the deaf and visually impaired are often very well trained, but so are social workers and so why do they get paid so much more? I just don't get it.)
Over a number of years, I worked in poor, middle class and wealthy districts. Some teachers were clearly well qualified and taught very difficult subjects and had to do a great deal of preparation. Other teachers seemed to do far less preparation and did not teach demanding subjects. Let's pay for the preparation of the teacher and the difficulty of the subject taught. A good music or art teacher who really does outstanding work should be paid as well as the best science teacher. Many school librarians (school media specialists) were, in my opinion, doing easier and less jobs, for example, as were many social studies teachers. But this is only to generalize.
I agree with you for the most part, there are kindergarten teachers, guidance councilors, etc making 6 figures or as much as a 12th grade physics or english teacher. Also the UFTA is fighting performance reviews that would address some of the issues you mentioned and step away from automatic increases. I dis see one contract where there are reviews by the school board and superintendent.
Because in real life it's rarely as black and white as your example, and test scores are a bad metric for learning since emphasizing them simply leads to teaching for the test. IE, why the overblown "No Child Left Behind" program has been a total failure. I agree that there should be more ways to reward good teachers and punish bad ones but test scores aren't the answer.
Edited to say that on LI, unionization isn't hurting any teacher. Even the good ones are being paid more than they would be in comparable districts.
NCLB act is such a nonsense motivator for any sort of discussion, especially in NY. We've had regeants for how many decades. Where was the uproar about "teaching the test" back then. Tens of thousands of students graduated from out vaunted LI Public Schools should all be recalled because they were given a standardized test which they were taught to take thoughout the year.
As far as outcomes, why is this a bad thing to test on. Are you saying that corporate outcomes, stock outcomes, or product outcomes are all completely outside the metric to be judged on that we cannot take a similar idea and apply it to the public school system to reward those teachers who do suceed in classes?
Because in real life it's rarely as black and white as your example, and test scores are a bad metric for learning since emphasizing them simply leads to teaching for the test. IE, why the overblown "No Child Left Behind" program has been a total failure. I agree that there should be more ways to reward good teachers and punish bad ones but test scores aren't the answer.
Edited to say that on LI, unionization isn't hurting any teacher. Even the good ones are being paid more than they would be in comparable districts.
No measure is perfect, just because it doesn't take into account every single variable doesn't make it obsolete. If measuring teachers by test scores is the best indicator that we have of a successful teacher then that's how we measure them. Such a stupid argument! I"m really tired of hearing it honestly. Teachers employ less than perfect methods in measuring their student's performance, yet they can't be measured in their own job performance. Oh, god forbid that happened. How dare the taxpayers want results for their overly burdensome taxes. It's for the children!
Because in real life it's rarely as black and white as your example, and test scores are a bad metric for learning since emphasizing them simply leads to teaching for the test. IE, why the overblown "No Child Left Behind" program has been a total failure. I agree that there should be more ways to reward good teachers and punish bad ones but test scores aren't the answer.
Edited to say that on LI, unionization isn't hurting any teacher. Even the good ones are being paid more than they would be in comparable districts.
And you can't stop it. People were crying about this for a few years now and every year budget passes. don't know how. I have no clue. And that's why we need to promote tax cap so that they can spend within limits. Or they will keep giving themselves these huge pay increases or benefits.
Can we do something about this or Long islanders are just sleeping. Drinking beer and cry about the tax bill when it comes. Then forget the next day till next year. Can we please educate our fellow citizens ! Wake up guys !
And you can't stop it. People were crying about this for a few years now and every year budget passes. don't know how. I have no clue. And that's why we need to promote tax cap so that they can spend within limits. Or they will keep giving themselves these huge pay increases or benefits.
Can we do something about this or Long islanders are just sleeping. Drinking beer and cry about the tax bill when it comes. Then forget the next day till next year. Can we please educate our fellow citizens ! Wake up guys !
Judgeing by the conversations I have had with people at work, its beyond hope. Most people seem to want to turn a blind eye to the issues because for some reason there is a perceived social stigma of being a bad guy when you want to cut education spending.
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Taxes going up
