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Old 11-14-2011, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,416 posts, read 27,923,260 times
Reputation: 7249

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nassau2suffolk View Post
You would prefer a state bankruptcy to a convention?
Not saying I'd prefer it.

I'm saying the politicians would rather fiddle while Rome/LI burns than call a convention to change this.
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:06 PM
 
2,748 posts, read 3,010,522 times
Reputation: 2349
Quote:
Originally Posted by qlty View Post
New York needs to become a right to work state with term limits
You post this in every thread. What do right-to-work laws have to do with public sector jobs? Are you a Wal-Mart executive or something?
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:09 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,392,137 times
Reputation: 47449
subcontracting of police, firefighters, teachers and social workers is inevitable.
what needs to happen, is management and congressmen need to be subcontracted as well, but you wont hear much bout that, will u?
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:13 PM
 
2,748 posts, read 3,010,522 times
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Yeah, the one thing missing from firefighting has been the profit motive.

<- is there some way to make this bigger, and animate it?
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,416 posts, read 27,923,260 times
Reputation: 7249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
subcontracting of police, firefighters, teachers and social workers is inevitable.
what needs to happen, is management and congressmen need to be subcontracted as well, but you wont hear much bout that, will u?
That's not going to help because there will be a middleman company making a profit added to the equation. School districts have already started doing this with some special ed and early intervention providers and the agencies are making the bucks that were "saved" by not hiring the providers and paying the actual providers less.
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Old 11-14-2011, 01:45 PM
 
2,748 posts, read 3,010,522 times
Reputation: 2349
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post
That's not going to help because there will be a middleman company making a profit added to the equation. School districts have already started doing this with some special ed and early intervention providers and the agencies are making the bucks that were "saved" by not hiring the providers and paying the actual providers less.
That's what happens whenever a government service is privatized. Management makes money, the workers get shafted, quality of service goes down, and the taxpayer pays the same amount. Welcome to the American Way.
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Old 11-14-2011, 02:18 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,392,137 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interlude View Post
That's what happens whenever a government service is privatized. Management makes money, the workers get shafted, quality of service goes down, and the taxpayer pays the same amount. Welcome to the American Way.
in part i agree but in the long run subcontracting is not guna go away.
u will always have wolves but less of them with subcontracting. big government main product is getting bigger and more expensive and living forever. subcontractors have a life span, if you dont renew they are gone. have seen it happen at the county level.
entire department gone in the twinkling of an eye.
subcontracting is evil. but it takes a stalin to stop a hitler.
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Old 11-14-2011, 02:28 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,624 posts, read 8,113,732 times
Reputation: 6949
Why not simply tax pensions, make them pay a higher % of their benefits, and lower their pay (especially for teachers, school administrators, and law enforcement)?

No need to sub-contract or call a ConCon.
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Old 11-14-2011, 07:02 PM
 
1,481 posts, read 2,707,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gem301 View Post
FYI The earliest you could enter the NYPD was 20 and that was over 20 years ago. The age requirement has changed to 21. Only employees who work in a civilian capacity can work at 18 and they aren't entitled to a 20 year pension. They are required to work until 55 or 62 depending on which tier they were hired under.

Correction: started with NYC EMS at age 18, Age 20 with NYPD
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:24 PM
 
3,447 posts, read 3,513,903 times
Reputation: 3079
Quote:
Originally Posted by nassau2suffolk View Post
My point was that a bankruptcy is not necessary, especially for what pequa mentioned.

A good place to start would be to have all current members pay into the system for their whole career, not just the first ten years.
Tier 5, which is the current tier of NYS employees, does require contributions for the entire career.

It's NOT Tier 5 that's the problem. No Tier 4 or 5 employees are vested enough yet to be drawing from payouts- and if the system continues to see decent turnarounds on it's money, those putting in 3.5% for their career will likely end up retrieving nearly an equal sum back (after what is matched by state).

It is Tier's 1 and 2 that were told they could put in NOTHING their career, and take out for years and years beyond what anyone thought life expectancy was in 1945.

Essentially, these retirees are protected from ANY situation minus a change in the state constitution, or the state tax code which allows taxing of public pensions.

This is the problem at hand. It is fairly a clear issue, that for some reason falls off the table from any political banter.

I realize it's hard to say we should demonize teachers, police officers, or civil servants, or to demand something back from them- but the only other solution is to retroactively demand something from those who drafted these contracts and business plans.

Guess what... they're all dead now.

The other solution, would be to have current civil servants put in 20% of their salaries, but when they retire in 40 years, we will give them $1,000,000 a year pensions, and full health care benefits.

They'd likely put in, and our systems would be rich with money again, and 40 years from now we'd be faced with a huge payout problem... but it would certainly roll the current predicament over for 40 years.

This is exactly what happened to us.
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