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I was only commenting on your point that a "$600k house with 20% down would be under $2k/mo." Clearly you see that isn't true.
A $3050 nut for housing alone on $125k BEFORE taxes may be "easy" for you but most people I know find it challenging if not downright difficult and it is the DEFINITION of living paycheck to paycheck. Anyone making $125k gross on LI who buys a $600k house is living on the edge or over it. God bless them when they leave the keys on the counter for the bank later.
Why? Spending $36k out of a $125k gross leaves you with at least $900 per week for food, gas, electric, cars, etc.... Is it upper middle class? No. Can you do it without struggling? Yes.
Why? Spending $36k out of a $125k gross leaves you with at least $900 per week for food, gas, electric, cars, etc.... Is it upper middle class? No. Can you do it without struggling? Yes.
Wow, $900wk, sort of. Utilities (oil, gas, elec, cable, cells, commute, autos) eat up half of that easily and then there are those little luxuries like health insurance and/or copays. Food is a nice luxury. So at the end I'm deciding on whether to get brakes, pay for my kids karate or iron my own shirts and pants for work. Yup, that's living! No stress at all with that "cushion." And retirement?! What's that?!
Why? Spending $36k out of a $125k gross leaves you with at least $900 per week for food, gas, electric, cars, etc.... Is it upper middle class? No. Can you do it without struggling? Yes.
Ehh, I am w/ Mongoose on this one. $900/mo left over is really not much at all, especially if you factor in kids and their unexpected costs like new diapers, food, medicine, and of course - what about home repairs/maintenance? All you need is for the furnace to break down and there goes $5K down the drain easily. I dont think its worth buying a $600K house if you will be struggling just to make ends meet. I know people here on the Island like living above their means and engaging in a "keep up with the Jones'" mentality, but that doesnt mean it should be recommended - or even be considered when trying to define what an "upper middle class" income should be. Upper middle class isn't just about bringing home a $300k+ income between 2 people. Its about not living paycheck to paycheck, saving 10% to savings/retirement, being able to eat at Ruth Chris over Friendlys a few times a year, affording a car payment for a Benz/BMW, etc. and STILL have money left over to play with.
As an attorney, I know several families in my social circle of friends/co-workers who definitely qualify under this definition - yet many of them (even myself) choose to live BELOW our means because it maximizes value. For me, it means driving a Civic even though I can afford a 500 series BMW. That extra $500/month for a car goes toward a large Balcony room on a Royal Caribbean cruise, or a nicer birthday present for my husband. We plan to buy a house next year, and although our bank approved us for a jumbo loan, there is no way on earth we feel comfortable taking a loan where a job loss or medical emergency means we are a few months away from foreclosure. Upper middle class to me means = comfortably NOT living paycheck to paycheck, but STILL aware of what is coming in $$-wise and what is coming out (sticking to a budget).
Ever watch the "Can I Afford It?" segment of Suze Orman's show on CNBC every Saturday? There are oodles of people who are making $50K salaries and showing massive mortgage debt, cc debt, student loan debt plus car lease/finance payments, yet very little in liquid savings or retirement. Her "How am I Doing?" segment is also eye-opening when you see people in their 50s calling in asking if they are good to retire at age 60 with only $350K in retirement, only to have Suze give them a dose of reality!!! I think if you watch her show long enough, you get a sense of what you can afford, and what you can't and which individuals are living above their means or below. People who can afford installation of a $ 65K+ in ground pool with monthly take home of $18K/month + 500K in retirement are clearly more upper middle class than Joe Schmoe who must watch every penny even though he is living on a public sector pension that doesn't increase as fast as the cost of living/taxes, etc.
Last edited by LegalDiva; 03-01-2013 at 01:58 PM..
Wow, $900wk, sort of. Utilities (oil, gas, elec, cable, cells, commute, autos) eat up half of that easily and then there are those little luxuries like health insurance and/or copays. Food is a nice luxury. So at the end I'm deciding on whether to get brakes, pay for my kids karate or iron my own shirts and pants for work. Yup, that's living! No stress at all with that "cushion." And retirement?! What's that?!
LOL - so true. Just because you have enough money left over at the month to pay for your basic necessities and maybe some extras (those karate lessons and a dry cleaner doing your shirts) doesn't mean you are UPPER MIDDLE CLASS. You must be kidding, but that's LI in a nutshell - "I can pay my bills so I'm doing great". Hell, maybe that is actually true there nowadays.
Again, upper middle has way more than $900/week left after all the necessities and incidentals, driving luxury cars, and are going on nice vacations without burning up the credit limit.
LOL - so true. Just because you have enough money left over at the month to pay for your basic necessities and maybe some extras (those karate lessons and a dry cleaner doing your shirts) doesn't mean you are UPPER MIDDLE CLASS. You must be kidding, but that's LI in a nutshell - "I can pay my bills so I'm doing great". Hell, maybe that is actually true there nowadays.
Again, upper middle has way more than $900/week left after all the necessities and incidentals, driving luxury cars, and are going on nice vacations without burning up the credit limit.
I did explicitly state in my post $125k was not UMC. Alright, after some reflection, I'll grant you $600k is stretching it a bit, so let's go $500k. You now have an extra $400 per week. Surely that must suffice to not "struggle". $500k can get you into some top notch school systems.
I did explicitly state in my post $125k was not UMC. Alright, after some reflection, I'll grant you $600k is stretching it a bit, so let's go $500k. You now have an extra $400 per week. Surely that must suffice to not "struggle". $500k can get you into some top notch school systems.
$500k CANNOT get you into ANY top notch school systems in an upper middle class town with a reasonable commute to Manhattan. Show me the house!
Description
Home Partially Damaged Due To Fire. Fabulous Location..2 Blocks To Beach, Schools And Railroad! Detached Garage, Close To Railroad! Taxes Are W/O Star; Homeowner Wants All Offers! The Possibilities Are Endless!
Description
Home Partially Damaged Due To Fire. Fabulous Location..2 Blocks To Beach, Schools And Railroad! Detached Garage, Close To Railroad! Taxes Are W/O Star; Homeowner Wants All Offers! The Possibilities Are Endless!
Come on read the listing: "The Possiblities Ae Endless!". There are others than that one. Perfectly good domiciles for $499k in the NSSD.
Come on read the listing: "The Possiblities Ae Endless!". There are others than that one. Perfectly good domiciles for $499k in the NSSD.
LMAO! They sure are endless! Meaning you knock down the mess and build something entirely new!
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All you need is for the furnace to break down and there goes $5K down the drain easily. I dont think its worth buying a $600K house if you will be struggling just to make ends meet. I know people here on the Island like living above their means and engaging in a "keep up with the Jones'" mentality, but that doesnt mean it should be recommended - or even be considered when trying to define what an "upper middle class" income should be. Upper middle class isn't just about bringing home a $300k+ income between 2 people. Its about not living paycheck to paycheck, saving 10% to savings/retirement, being able to eat at Ruth Chris over Friendlys a few times a year, affording a car payment for a Benz/BMW, etc. and STILL have money left over to play with. 
We plan to buy a house next year, and although our bank approved us for a jumbo loan, there is no way on earth we feel comfortable taking a loan where a job loss or medical emergency means we are a few months away from foreclosure. Upper middle class to me means = comfortably NOT living paycheck to paycheck, but STILL aware of what is coming in $$-wise and what is coming out (sticking to a budget). 
